• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Does Your System "Wow" or "Amaze" You? Looking to upgrade? Tell Us About It....

Plcamp

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
860
Likes
1,315
Location
Ottawa
These bring tears to my eyes and I do want to upgrade them. I currently power them with a Hafler xl280 from a Yamaha RXA3030 AVR (because that gives me great flexibility to manage three different A/V zones) pre-outs ..with a google tv device on one of the hdmi inputs to access android environment for streaming.

It’s very convincing in it’s (narrow off axis) sweet spot if you do not turn it up too loud (which may well be louder than I should). At louder volumes it has several limitations, especially lack of control of baffle vibrations. The woofers have what I believe is inadequately suppressed breakup just above 1khz that needs a series filter. The fullrange is very good but can’t match the detail of my upstairs Paradigm Studio 100’s. I wish I could replace it with a KEF driver or an mtm or a horn and drive everything from a Minidsp flex.

As I said … they already do bring tears to my eyes and it would be reasonable to be satisfied with that.

But I made Audio a hobby, and those rules don’t permit you to ever be satisfied, else the hobby ends!
IMG_0214.jpeg
 

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
Comment deleted till I review this threads succession of commentary and get my comment proper and correct. :facepalm:
Aw c'mon. You can tell us!
 
OP
MattHooper

MattHooper

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
7,197
Likes
11,813
My system does wow me frequently. But that may be an illustration of Beranek's Law:

It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker.

Seriously though, it sounds like the headphones. So, I'm happy.

Though posed as a psychological distortion it could also be seen in a positive way: Something becomes more satisfying and personal to the degree you put your own work in to it. Whether it's fixing up cars, gardening, building a new deck, or making audio equipment.

It also makes sense of why many audiophiles have found satisfaction in carefully putting together what they believe to be synergistic systems, and also what they get out of all the tweaking. Even though some of the activity may be delusional, it's in the service of satisfying the feeling of being part of the creative process, of putting something together that represents one's own input and ideas on audio.

I admit to being a bit old school in that I enjoy the sense of carefully selecting my components this way (excepting the woo-woo tweak stuff).
 

Waxx

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2021
Messages
1,931
Likes
7,688
Location
Wodecq, Hainaut, Belgium
Wel, if you want to see some of my work, these are some that i build for myself..

The small black one is a prototype MLTL with a Mark Audio CHN110 driver (not finished to look good, more a prove of concept that is working better than expected). They will be rebuild in plywood and finsihed like it should. Now it's raw cheap mdf with a layer of black paint.

the big one is a reflex with the very underrated Fane Sovereighn 12-250TC that i rate a lot higher than any Lii speaker. That last driver is ment as pro speaker for floor monitors, but with minimal eq with passive components and on low power (<25w) it becomes what Lii speakers want to be. It does not look fancy altough and is a very cheap driver to buy (80€). The cabinet is a bit modelled like the Altec 620 cabinet and tuned to 30Hz, wich means it's a huge wardrobe style cabinet.

1683655254823.jpeg


And this is the speaker i probally listen most to these days, a reflex with the Mark Audio Alpair 10.3 driver, again with passive eq in the box, that is relative flat between 45 and 18kHz. They are in my home office where i work most of the time these days.

20200721-DSC_0115e.jpg

I made way more than these, but i try to stay into the single driver fullrange theme... ;)
 

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
Though posed as a psychological distortion it could also be seen in a positive way: Something becomes more satisfying and personal to the degree you put your own work in to it. Whether it's fixing up cars, gardening, building a new deck, or making audio equipment.

It also makes sense of why many audiophiles have found satisfaction in carefully putting together what they believe to be synergistic systems, and also what they get out of all the tweaking. Even though some of the activity may be delusional, it's in the service of satisfying the feeling of being part of the creative process, of putting something together that represents one's own input and ideas on audio.

I admit to being a bit old school in that I enjoy the sense of carefully selecting my components this way (excepting the woo-woo tweak stuff).
Everything you said. But the engineering persona adds anxiety when it's not absolutely perfect. This is good in a sense, in that it made me work harder to understand speaker design.
 

Mr. Widget

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 11, 2022
Messages
1,146
Likes
1,697
Location
SF Bay Area
It’s very convincing in it’s (narrow off axis) sweet spot if you do not turn it up too loud (which may well be louder than I should).
When I turn mine up too loud the neighborhood shudders... but I rarely do.

Every good system works well within certain parameters and under certain conditions. Matching these factors up is part of the art of our hobby. And isn't it joyous when we tick all of our favorite boxes!
 

Mr. Widget

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 11, 2022
Messages
1,146
Likes
1,697
Location
SF Bay Area
Everything you said. But the engineering persona adds anxiety when it's not absolutely perfect. This is good in a sense, in that it made me work harder to understand speaker design.
I am in phase with you both...
I was finally able to turn off that anxiety a decade or so back when I accepted that neither my system nor I will ever be perfect
 

Plcamp

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
860
Likes
1,315
Location
Ottawa
But the engineering persona adds anxiety when it's not absolutely perfect.
I am interested in who reigns next on the best performing DAC list even though all science says it makes zero difference, because the technical sport of being the best helps better things happen.

There. I just justified all next Gen DACs.
 

Plcamp

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
860
Likes
1,315
Location
Ottawa
When I turn mine up too loud the neighborhood shudders... but I rarely do.
I found out my next door neighbour’s* crystal cabinet had chattering wine glasses at times.

I am oddly proud of that.

* (He moved back to Nova Scotia, but I don’t think that was the reason.)
 

Doodski

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
20,750
Likes
20,760
Location
Canada
I wish I could replace it with a KEF driver or an mtm or a horn and drive everything from a Minidsp flex.
What's holding you back? A active system is a tweakers' paradise. If you've never had a active system I can easily say to you that it's the bees knees. :D
 

Doodski

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
20,750
Likes
20,760
Location
Canada
Fane Sovereighn 12-250TC
I've never heard a 12" full range free air driver in a one-way configuration other than maybe a old 1960s console or something like that. How do they sound on top end? I see they are rated full range to 17kHz @ -6dB whatever that means but no other specification was provided.
zzzzzzzzzzzz Screenshot 2023-05-09 125215.png
 

Plcamp

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
860
Likes
1,315
Location
Ottawa
If you've never had a active system
I have extensively experimented with a Minidsp 2x4 and it’s convinced me that, ultimately, I want a 2x8 flex.

As far as other points go, that would require a David Letterman style top ten list of excuses.
 

Waxx

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2021
Messages
1,931
Likes
7,688
Location
Wodecq, Hainaut, Belgium
I've never heard a 12" full range free air driver in a one-way configuration other than maybe a old 1960s console or something like that. How do they sound on top end? I see they are rated full range to 17kHz @ -6dB whatever that means but no other specification was provided.
View attachment 284531
The trick is to use LRC filters to make them less resonant above 2kHz but not fully flat, and to keep the power down (<25W). You don't sit on axis when you have a pair, and slightly off axis they are flat enough to work well. With similar drivers from Lii and a few others the resoances are to big to do that, this one is farily controlled with the 2 wizzers that are very stiff compared to others and easy to eq. I used passive eq, but a dsp can off course do the same. Dispertion is good till about 30° off axis, after that they fall off fast (blue line is 45° of axis). But most spekers don't have dispertion much further i think (30° off axis is 60° wide dispertion like measured here). And that kind of dispertion is very good for a 12" cone with wizzers. in my config they go flat between a bit below 30Hz to about 18kHz within 10dB range, but like said i eq them passivly with LRC filters.

The sound is very open, and the wide baffle also helps with the dispertion. And on low power you don't stress the magnet or the cone and as they are high sensitive (98dB/2.83v/1m in reality), yo don't run out of xmax on reasonable volume. The big cone plays effortless, which is a big advantage for very dynamic music.

Off course there are also bad sides, it's not a neutral speaker and the big cone with wizzers (that help with fixing the dispertion) causes a bit extra distortion. But every speaker has bad sides so it's a compromise you need to make.

But it's a very good speaker to enjoy jazz music and similar orchestrated music, and even classical music sound relative good (due to never be limited in dynamics, what is often a problem with smaller speaker drivers). It's a speciality speaker that has a very oldskool vibe to it in sound and appearance, and that was the goal of this build. I made them as garden system for the summer, but in winter times I also use them inside now. I'm very happy with the result actually. BTW, now they are on casters, as the cabinet is very very heavy to move, even on casters. It's made with 18mm birch ply, and heavy braced inside with 3x3cm slats and with a double front baffle.
 
Last edited:

Waxx

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2021
Messages
1,931
Likes
7,688
Location
Wodecq, Hainaut, Belgium
With such small modern full-range drivers I have also built impressive speakers. And if it was only the size. :D:D:D

View attachment 284536
Mark Audio drivers (i suppose they are Mark Audio, they look like it) are very high engineered fullrange drivers that are exeptional flat in response for a single driver system. Most are not that way. If they are not Mark Audio, they are similar drivers from Jordan or EAD (all based on the same tech and close related) i think. I had some old Philips fullrange drivers before i knew them that i loved, but Mark Audio did really push the bar a lot further for this type. I won't say they are like a studio monitor type flat and neutral, but much better than any other type i know (and i know a lot of those).

These horns look impressive indeed, but many of those types are not wel engineered i'm affraid. What design is this?
 

computer-audiophile

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Messages
2,565
Likes
2,879
Location
Germany
What design is this?
That was one of my few missteps. More or less the only one. I had built it 100% accurately and carefully from a design drawing by Nelson Pass.


My mistake was not turning on my brain. I could have known better. Fortunately, I have built enough other designs of my own with which I have had good success/public feedback/critics. So I was able to get over it.
 
Last edited:

Waxx

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2021
Messages
1,931
Likes
7,688
Location
Wodecq, Hainaut, Belgium
That was one of my few missteps. More or less the only one. I had built it 100% accurately and carefully from a design drawing by Nelson Pass.


My mistake was not turning on my brain. I could have known better. Fortunately, I have built enough other designs of my own with which I have had good success/public feedback/critics.
He is good in transistor amp bulding, but his speaker designs are mostly not that wel thought off i have to say... This is indeed a bad design as the driver (Jordan JX92) is not fit for a backloaded horn, and the hornpath is way to short to work right. That driver is more fit for a TL type of speaker, a TQWT or MLTL probally would be a lot better sounding. It's not a bad driver at all altough.
 

Urvile

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2021
Messages
85
Likes
109
Location
Seattle
My system though not perfect, is much, much better than I'd ever hoped. It wows and amazes me often. Over the years, I've had friends/acquaintances who had spent much more than I, and in my opinion had systems that did not come close to matching what I have now. I chalk this up to industry and technology improvements, and this website and a few others, that guided me to pick my gear. Is there room for improvement? Yes! but only with diminishing returns, and a great deal more money. -- See my signature for a list of equipment.
 
Top Bottom