Does Your System "Wow" or "Amaze" You? Looking to upgrade? Tell Us About It....

[boobled]

I haven recently got back into the hobby after a long hiatus (I have built a few DIY speakers and still run a subwoofer I built ten years ago) and decided to put together a system with the goal of using a pseudo vintage, good performing, relatively modest package (buying everything used as well). So far I'm enjoying it but I think I will add a couple larger subs to try and improve the impact of the music....not sure it will work though.

Kef 105.1
Parasound JC5
ARC LS17SE
Rotel 1072
DO200 MKII
Gold Note PH10
Thorens TD160 MKII
DIY 10" sub

 

[jbattman1016]

My system is great considering the constrains of the room, but I would never invite any of you over to see it. lol

 

[Doodski]

Kef 105.1

Very nice. I owned the 104.2 and I was able to purchase a factory matched pair of 107.2 tweeters that I used in my tri-amp'd active system. The KEF Reference tweeters have a very nice sound and the imaging is great too.

 

[computer-audiophile]

My system is great considering the constrains of the room, but I would never invite any of you over to see it. lol

You could show a photo.

 

[Keith_W]

My turn I guess. You can see the equipment and how the system is configured with this diagram:

The speakers are Acapella High Violons, modified by having the passive crossover removed, and a new woofer supplied by SGR Audio (a Melbourne based company) to replace the woofers that came with the speakers. Each speaker driver is directly connected to its own power amp channel with no passive crossover in between, has its own DAC channel, and the crossover is done in the PC.

I have not made a diagram of how the software is configured, but it is simply JRiver --> Acourate Convolver. At the moment I am experimenting with Ambiophonics DSP for crosstalk cancellation. The filters are generated with Acourate. I have just completed a week long round of repeat measurements and generated new filters which unfortunately sound worse than the older filters. The older filters are less corrected, basically it only had subwoofer and woofer correction only and the highs were left unmolested. I have three target curves loaded and I can switch between them in real time. Two of the target curves look like this:

And the third target curve is "for fun", where I experiment with different target curves to see if I like the tonality.

This is the step response:

The new version of Acourate has a feature called "ICPA" (Interchannel Phase Alignment) which works below the Schroder frequency to align the phases of the left and right channels to minimize cancellation and peaks. This is the result after running several iterations of ICPA:

And this is the measured in-room frequency response:

You can probably see the same problems that I see, so hopefully in a week it won't look like that any more. Or I might accept a less "ideal" looking measured response if I subjectively like the result.

What does it sound like? Well, it depends on which set of filters is loaded!

 

[jbattman1016]

You could show a photo.

Even that would be too much, so many rules being broken about proper speaker setup. Example, I have my rear surround speakers on the floor aiming up... This actually works pretty well and doesn't sound like it's coming from the floor, but yeah.....

 

[MattHooper]

I also think that the wow factor should be that nothing distrubs you on your system. If you're looking for a magic wow factor that blows you out of your seat, that does not exist. It should be that you're not feeling you miss something and can focus on the music, not your gear. Because the music is what it's about at the end and the gear is just a tool. That is what many audiophools are doing wrong and why they keep swapping and spending to much.

I understand that sentiment. I think a lot of us try to choose speakers that don't exhibit some obvious characteristic or coloration that draws attention to the speakers themselves, rather than to the music. And I totally agree about the gear being a tool to the end of enjoying music (for most of us).

On the other hand, I think there is a sense that trying to constrain any "wow" factor only to the music and not to the gear isn't strictly, or always possible or desirable.

For instance: When I listen to music on my smart speaker, my iphone, my car stereo etc none of these are high fidelity. Far from it. They are all colored to one degree or another. Yet I find myself effortlessly just listening to the music, not the "system." I'm not even thinking of the technology for the most part. That seems then like I already would have achieved the ideal of "just focusing on the music" yet with cheap, colored gear. Just like millions of other music fans.

But then, what makes us audiophiles and not *just* music lovers? It's an enthusiasm not just for music, but for sound quality, and for audio gear that will produce high sound quality.

I love sound. Since I can enjoy music on lowly gear, what I seek from my hi-fi system is a "music PLUS" experience. That is music PLUS the added sensuality of good sound. If I'm not appreciating the added Good Sound, then I wouldn't need the hi fi system to begin with.

So for instance last night when I played an orchestral piece I not only enjoyed the music, but also the sensual quality of the richer, clearer dynamic sound, and ALSO the kick I got in acknowledging "holy sh*t I can't believe my system can produce such an experience for me."

This could be seen as somewhat of a dichotomy: the audiophile is seeking to sort of remove the sound of the gear from the chain so it's "just about the music," yet also wants to appreciate that very achievement, which is why they care about the quality of the gear in the first place. To not acknowledge the sound quality would be awfully strange.
One could perhaps try to say "Well, we can just concentrate on acknowledging the sound quality of the source." But that doesn't work: It can only be expressed by the quality of the gear. That's why people who don't have much experience with high end audio have "holy cow" moments in front of a good system. They are hearing and acknowledging the contribution of the great gear to the great sound.

So, in sum, I totally get the point you are making I believe, and it resonates with most of us I think. I'm just trying to place it in a wider context.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Sometimes audio stuff impresses me and I think, wow, that's amazing! This can happen for different reasons. Sometimes it's very old stuff, too. Not the average things of course - this is boring.

I could give many examples from my experience. Please look closely at the picture. It's not two antique Chinese lanterns made of rusty sheet iron draped decoratively on a record shelf, but two original 1925 Western Electric amplifiers (WE 25B).

The round object made of painted paper is also not a Japanese parasol, but a WE 540W loudspeaker.

All fully functional, of course, and as Mr. Walther of the Maison de L'audiophilre in Paris said, 'absoluement incroyable' in voice reproduction. I heard these two amplifiers in a stereo configuration and thought 'wow', just incredible!

 

[Doodski]

Sometimes audio stuff impresses me and I think, wow, that's amazing! This can happen for different reasons. Sometimes it's very old stuff, too. Not the average things of course - this is boring.

I could give many examples from my experience. Please look closely at the picture. It's not two antique Chinese lanterns made of rusty sheet iron draped decoratively on a record shelf, but two original 1925 Western Electric amplifiers (WE 25B).

The round object made of painted paper is also not a Japanese parasol, but a WE 540W loudspeaker.

All fully functional, of course, and as Mr. Walther of the Maison de L'audiophilre in Paris said, 'absoluement incroyable' in voice reproduction. I heard these two amplifiers in a stereo configuration and thought 'wow', just incredible!

View attachment 284259

Wow. I thought I collected some nice pieces in my time but you took the cake with those pieces. Is that a Altec horn and compression driver?

 

[Axo1989]

Sometimes audio stuff impresses me and I think, wow, that's amazing! This can happen for different reasons. Sometimes it's very old stuff, too. Not the average things of course - this is boring.

I could give many examples from my experience. Please look closely at the picture. It's not two antique Chinese lanterns made of rusty sheet iron draped decoratively on a record shelf, but two original 1925 Western Electric amplifiers (WE 25B).

The round object made of painted paper is also not a Japanese parasol, but a WE 540W loudspeaker.

All fully functional, of course, and as Mr. Walther of the Maison de L'audiophilre in Paris said, 'absoluement incroyable' in voice reproduction. I heard these two amplifiers in a stereo configuration and thought 'wow', just incredible!

View attachment 284259

Amazing, those amps would be perfect for my interior design.

 

[dualazmak]

I especially admire your great Denon turntable. Wow & Flutter and S/N are sensationally good with this device. Better than many high-end turntables of today.

If I see it correctly on your poster, you also use a Tascam US-1x2HR. I actually bought this humble device as an interface for my guitars, but now I also use it as a DAC and regulary listen to music with it on my active loudspeakers. I also like that it has a real volume pot. Amazing how good it sounds.

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, the DP-57L TT and DL-301MkII MC are still amazingly nice.
And,,, TASCAM US-1x2HR is also doing really nice job in my setup, just same as in yours!

As for my recent revival of TT in my DSP multichannel fully active system, you would please refer to these my posts;

- Revival of analog LP player (MC cartridge) in my DSP multichannel multi-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo system for real time on-the-fly vinyl LP listening (and digital recording, if needed): #688

- Inside of Audio-Technica AT-PEQ30 phono preamplifier, and successful DIY suppression of inaudible EMF (electro-magnetic field) interference noise: #697

- Another comparative listening, on-the-fly vinyl LP vs. Remastered CD: analog piano solo recorded in 1967: #722

- Another comparative listening; on-the-fly remastered vinyl LP vs. remastered CD: Bill Evans jazz piano trio, analog recorded in 1977; remastered (2021) vinyl LP (45-RPM 188-gram) vs. its CD release: #740

- Summary of my motivations reviving vinyl TT (turntable) in DSP-based multichannel time-aligned multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo audio setup: #758, #1,262(remote thread)

 

[Mr. Widget]

My turn I guess. You can see the equipment and how the system is configured with this diagram:


The speakers are Acapella High Violons, modified by having the passive crossover removed, and a new woofer supplied by SGR Audio (a Melbourne based company) to replace the woofers that came with the speakers. Each speaker driver is directly connected to its own power amp channel with no passive crossover in between, has its own DAC channel, and the crossover is done in the PC.

I have just completed a week long round of repeat measurements and generated new filters which unfortunately sound worse than the older filters. The older filters are less corrected, basically it only had subwoofer and woofer correction only and the highs were left unmolested.

Very nice setup!

I have been bi and tri-amping DIY speakers since the early 80s. JBLs, Dynaudio drivers, dynamic electrostat hybrids, several ribbons... pretty much all manner of speaker. I have used analog EQ, I have used passive filtering, I have used DEQX and other DSP based EQ and "correction" algorithms and methods. With every design I have done as I dialed them in, they get better and better and then as I got closer to the ideal, the sound subjectively went south.

This phenomenon may be operator error, but having experienced this using different technologies, different topologies, and over decades... I am inclined to believe it is best to use drivers that are inherently linear with well behaved polar response and try to minimize your attempts to influence them.

To the original thread topic, my system wows me and brings a silly grin on my face every time I turn it on and has been doing so for years. It is all vintage and while not as cool as the older WE goodies shared above, it too unfortunately has become 100% unobtainium.

 

[Keith_W]

Don't worry, I place the blame for these poor sounding filters squarely on that stupid lump of meat and fat (mostly fat) between the computer and the speakers.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Don't worry, I place the blame for these poor sounding filters squarely on that stupid lump of meat and fat (mostly fat) between the computer and the speakers.

Maybe, but don't be afraid to prefer a filter set that results in measurements that appear less ideal.

 

[AlfaNovember]

My "Wow" are the planar magnetic ribbon tweeters. 4.5 kg of Neodymium will grab a screwdriver from your hand at 6 inches away, which causes spontaneous exclamations of surprise.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Wow. I thought I collected some nice pieces in my time but you took the cake with those pieces. Is that a Altec horn and compression driver?

Sorry, I can't remember exactly. I once moved along for a while to this French audiophile school of Jean Hiraga, Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h e.g. and still have friends there from the Mélaudia association.

I found another better photo of the antique WE amp in my archive. The ones from Monsieur Walther were in absolutely unchanged original condition with its first set of tubes. Still working.

 

[computer-audiophile]

...believe it is best to use drivers that are inherently linear with well behaved polar response and try to minimize your attempts to influence them.

Corresponds to my experience too. Also conforms to the philosophy of 'less but better'

 

[computer-audiophile]

... to continue from #97

Some loudspeakers react allergically to such interventions. E.g. broadband loudspeakers in classic design. Recently I tried these big Lii Audio F15. There was also a short wow effect, I was really surprised how good they sound. Enough bass and also the treble was enjoyable. A very complete speaker. Perfect match for a 300B SET amp.

 

[Waxx]

... to continue from #97

Some loudspeakers react allergically to such interventions. E.g. broadband loudspeakers in classic design. Recently I tried these big Lii Audio F15. There was also a short wow effect, I was really surprised how good they sound. Enough bass and also the treble was enjoyable. A very complete speaker. Perfect match for a 300B SET amp.

View attachment 284421

But those Lii's are far from linear responding. And there is a big confusion on who makes them as the orignial Lii Audio is a legendaric, but china only brand that does not export at all. Someone registered the name and now use Lii Song as the name, and makes speakers that are very flawed, but seems to have a public (a bit like Audio Nirvana fullrange drivers, and largely the same public).

But measurments show terrible responses (very strong resonances up top, often 10 to 20db above the general response) and in my experiences (i build a speaker with the F15 for someone who hired me for that) they are far from published specs and very inconsistent in specs. So absolute crap in my book (and i like good single driver fullrange speakers), and probally also to ASR standards. Actaully much like i rate Audio Nirvana speakers, of which Lii remind me a lot of.

 

[dualazmak]

The speakers are Acapella High Violons, modified by having the passive crossover removed, and a new woofer supplied by SGR Audio (a Melbourne based company) to replace the woofers that came with the speakers. Each speaker driver is directly connected to its own power amp channel with no passive crossover in between, has its own DAC channel, and the crossover is done in the PC.

Really nice setup; your policy/approach and mine are essentially quite similar with each other.

BTW, do you use protection capacitor(s) for your treasure tweeter and midrange horn?

I use 68 microF 400 VDC Jantzen Audio Standard Z-cap for my gem Beryllium midrange drivers, and 10 microF 400 VDC Jantzen Audio Standard Z-cap for my Be-tweeters and metal horn super-tweeters;

Of course, I carefully measured the line-level Fq response before and after (with and without) the protection caps confirming their transparency in working Fq zones, as shared in my post here.

Edit:
I also very carefully subjectively compared many times the actual room sound with and without the protection caps, and I found no audible difference, for example ref. here.