Does silver used in interconnects "sound" different than copper?

[mansr]

We’re still getting blamed.

I didn't realise you were Roman.

 

[SIY]

I didn't realise you were Roman.

We ordered the hit.

 

[Raindog123]

Whoops!! Did not even think about that!

Sorry

No harm done. Just caught my eye, even thought it was bit funny... This is how my brain is wired... Do not know if I am a 100% atheist, but definitely had too much science at school(s) to blindly believe all that stuff... More for “common points of reference.”

 

[mansr]

No harm done. Just caught my eye, even thought it was bit funny...

I figured it was intentional, especially with the "seasonal offer" bit.

 

[Raindog123]

I figured it was intentional, especially with the "seasonal offer" bit.

I was on the fence, so probed...

 

[kristiansen]

I think the word you're looking for is technobabble.

Exactly many thanks.

 

[sq225917]

We ordered the hit.

Don't stress about it, it's what God wanted. Just think how much better off the chocolate Industry is as result.

 

[mansr]

Don't stress about it, it's what God wanted.

 

[scott wurcer]

Come on folks before all of this there was Jack Chick https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-comic-cartoonist-death

Conspiracy theorist before it was fashionable.

 

[JSmith]

JSmith

 

[Deleted member 30090]

I'm from Denmark like Kristiansen and can tell a little story about Kristiansen and co in their selfmade "hifi club".
They listened to differences in signal cables (RCA) and heard both large and small differences.
They even talked to each other about what they had heard.
After some time, one sees that the switch was on balanced.
So they had heard the same cable all the time, but still heard the difference when the cable was changed.

Talk about being influenced by what you see and know before you listen

 

[Mozphet]

I'm going to dump some more random thoughts I have. This is going to be a hoot.

The purpose of trying to achieve good sound quality is not to please measurement rigs, but to please our individual tastes. I define good sound quality as sound that fits your tastes the best, not what measures best. A high sound *quality* ( low distortion, fast transients, good frequency extension, adherence to generalized response targets etc.) does not ensure high sound enjoyment. Do they more often than not correlate? Maybe, but it is not definitive.

Science is a tool, nothing more. It does not dictate the experience of reality. Our consciousness does, and while we may think we have a pretty firm grasp on the scientific side of audio, we don't understand the role of consciousness at all, because it cannot be quantified. We can identify patterns of what appeals to most people, but no further than that. Measurements can help inform you why something sounds bad to you but it can not tell you why you find something to sound preferential despite "bad" measurements. We are arrogant to believe we have identified all the factors that constitutes sound, particularly sound that pleases us as human beings but more specifically as individuals.

Ignorance is bliss and ignorance isn't a vice in audio (aside from potential economic loss, but we aren't in this to make incredible deals).
I enjoyed my first crappy piece of gear (probably some Skullcandy IEM back in 2011) and the enjoyment I derived from it then isn't invalidated today just because I have listened to million dollar speaker setups in the recent years.

So...
I'm literally sitting here comparing the copper cable and the silver cable on my FiiO FD5, an IEM that many hold as particularly sensitive to cable material. Even if it is a sighted comparison, all I have to do to gauge the difference is to focus on the bass "fatness" and impact and think to myself:

"Am I satisfied now while listening? Do I get the thump that I expect, crave and know can be there? No? Ok, changing cable immediately. Same test. Am I getting it now? Yes, there it is. What changed? I changed cable. What cable am I using? Copper."

There are other differences as well as I mentioned in my previous post, but the bass and general engagement factor is the most obvious telltale and it is simply neutered through the silver cable. I feel this way every time without fail, and it is a pattern for me among all the silver cables I've tried. Are there any IEMs or headphones where I would prefer a silver cable? Yes. The Audioquest Nighthawk is one of them as it is excessively warm and dark without one.



There's nothing that science can show me go debunk this conclusion of mine because the conclusion isn't drawn from a scientific method. We do not apprehend or experience reality through a scientific lens, that's not the norm, that's not how we operate. Even if you say it's placebo or delusion, the fact that I feel strongly about my experience does not go away. The experience is real. You don't enjoy a product because it measures good or because it can be measured at all, you enjoy it because you enjoy it.

Reality perceived by the conscious human mind >>>>>> audio science.

 

[Raindog123]

There's nothing that science can show me go debunk this conclusion of mine because the conclusion isn't drawn from a scientific method

1) True. But a couple of “hail mary’s” will make it (the effect in discussion) even better!

2) So true, that you do not even need to bother buying a second cable - ask your buddy to _pretend_ switching a cable (without you knowing for sure) while telling you he did it. You’ll get the same - improved bass - “conclusion” for free, and everyone wins. And - whether you like it or not - it’s the science at play here. Called psychology.

3) It is perfectly fine for you (or anyone) to believe in or dismiss anything they want. It’s a relatively free world... As soon as this [personal] belief does not turn into a calculated disinformation for the purpose of money grab [from unsuspecting others] - that’s where it might need some corrective action.

 

[SIY]

I'm going to dump some more random thoughts I have. This is going to be a hoot.

The purpose of trying to achieve good sound quality is not to please measurement rigs, but to please our individual tastes. I define good sound quality as sound that fits your tastes the best, not what measures best. A high sound *quality* ( low distortion, fast transients, good frequency extension, adherence to generalized response targets etc.) does not ensure high sound enjoyment. Do they more often than not correlate? Maybe, but it is not definitive.

Science is a tool, nothing more. It does not dictate the experience of reality. Our consciousness does, and while we may think we have a pretty firm grasp on the scientific side of audio, we don't understand the role of consciousness at all, because it cannot be quantified. We can identify patterns of what appeals to most people, but no further than that. Measurements can help inform you why something sounds bad to you but it can not tell you why you find something to sound preferential despite "bad" measurements. We are arrogant to believe we have identified all the factors that constitutes sound, particularly sound that pleases us as human beings but more specifically as individuals.

Ignorance is bliss and ignorance isn't a vice in audio (aside from potential economic loss, but we aren't in this to make incredible deals).
I enjoyed my first crappy piece of gear (probably some Skullcandy IEM back in 2011) and the enjoyment I derived from it then isn't invalidated today just because I have listened to million dollar speaker setups in the recent years.

So...
I'm literally sitting here comparing the copper cable and the silver cable on my FiiO FD5, an IEM that many hold as particularly sensitive to cable material. Even if it is a sighted comparison, all I have to do to gauge the difference is to focus on the bass "fatness" and impact and think to myself:

"Am I satisfied now while listening? Do I get the thump that I expect, crave and know can be there? No? Ok, changing cable immediately. Same test. Am I getting it now? Yes, there it is. What changed? I changed cable. What cable am I using? Copper."

There are other differences as well as I mentioned in my previous post, but the bass and general engagement factor is the most obvious telltale and it is simply neutered through the silver cable. I feel this way every time without fail, and it is a pattern for me among all the silver cables I've tried. Are there any IEMs or headphones where I would prefer a silver cable? Yes. The Audioquest Nighthawk is one of them as it is excessively warm and dark without one.



There's nothing that science can show me go debunk this conclusion of mine because the conclusion isn't drawn from a scientific method. We do not apprehend or experience reality through a scientific lens, that's not the norm, that's not how we operate. Even if you say it's placebo or delusion, the fact that I feel strongly about my experience does not go away. The experience is real. You don't enjoy a product because it measures good or because it can be measured at all, you enjoy it because you enjoy it.

Reality perceived by the conscious human mind >>>>>> audio science.

If you’re conscious that you’re living a fantasy, and that there’s no actual changes in the sound but that using xyz makes your listening more enjoyable, there’s nothing wrong with that.

 

[BDWoody]

Ignorance is bliss and ignorance isn't a vice in audio...

No, but we prefer the 'not ignorance' side of things here generally.

If you are looking to keep firm hold on it, you might be careful what you read...you may find something around here that makes you realize that your blissful ignorance is being exploited to empty your wallet.

 

[Tks]

There's nothing that science can show me go debunk this conclusion of mine because the conclusion isn't drawn from a scientific method. We do not apprehend or experience reality through a scientific lens, that's not the norm, that's not how we operate. Even if you say it's placebo or delusion, the fact that I feel strongly about my experience does not go away. The experience is real. You don't enjoy a product because it measures good or because it can be measured at all, you enjoy it because you enjoy it.

Reality perceived by the conscious human mind >>>>>> audio science.

I agree, the fact that you're having an experience is real. Whether that experience is indicative of what is really going on outside your machination is obviously not the same.

What happens though, if I read some measurements, have it in my head that the device measures well, and then placebo myself into experiencing it as performing as well as I objectively assumed it does after seeing the objective data?

 

[Raindog123]

and then placebo myself into experiencing it as performing as well as I objectively assumed it does after seeing the objective dat

 

[Wombat]

FWIW:

Delusions

 

[Deleted member 30090]

Here is a test that Kristiansen is very afraid to participate in.
It is 6 pieces of the same music, where only one is original, the others have been through various electronics / cables.
Here he (and others) had to choose the file they think sounded best, but he does not dare to participate at all

https://www.dropbox.com/home/Lydtest med punktum

 

[scott wurcer]

Here he (and others) had to choose the file they think sounded best, but he does not dare to participate at all

This is typical behavior, once they realize there won't be a cheat they run away.