Do you like AMT tweeters?

[Digby]

The ones I've heard have been very nice sounding, but do seem to lack a certain bite or sharpness (compared to a waveguided metal dome, for instance). They don't quite seem to convey the reality of sound to the same extent, seems a bit too good, if you know what I mean.

What are your thoughts on AMTs?

 

[fpitas]

The sound of a tweeter can be heavily influenced by its crossover (true for any driver, really).

 

[DSJR]

I've never heard one which properly integrates with a cone bass-mid driver. There always seems to be some added 'tinsel' on top, more than a well integrated dome/cone can do...

 

[Purité Audio]

All in the FR and dispersion characteristics I haven’t noticed lack of ‘bite’ or ‘tinsel’ look at the measurements
Keith

 

[fpitas]

There are a lot of different styles and manufacturers, too. I suspect a skillful designer can make them sound just fine.

 

[Waxx]

Outside ESS (Heil AMT) they are crap i think. As the Heil is a bipolar design it's hard to implement right, so often done wrong. But when done' right, it's better than any dome or compression driver i heared. The best i heared was a modified version of the Heil speaker with it and a 10" woofer, wit the tweeter crossed at 700hz i thought (it's a while ago).

 

[Digby]

All in the FR and dispersion characteristics I haven’t noticed lack of ‘bite’ or ‘tinsel’ look at the measurements
Keith

You've dealt with a lot of high quality speakers, far more than me, I'm sure. Are you saying that certain types of drivers don't have a characteristic 'sound', as such?

 

[fpitas]

They all have a sound. Some are just easier than others to integrate and "get right".

 

[Purité Audio]

You've dealt with a lot of high quality speakers, far more than me, I'm sure. Are you saying that certain types of drivers don't have a characteristic 'sound', as such?

Not unless they are really badly engineered or used outside their passband.
It is the overall implementation that is important,
Keith

 

[fpitas]

Not unless they are really badly engineered or used outside their passband.
It is the overall implementation that is important,
Keith

I'd quibble, that they all do have a "sound" from their inherent dispersion and frequency response. But yes, a good designer takes that into account.

 

[Digby]

I'd quibble, that they all do have a "sound" from their inherent dispersion and frequency response. But yes, a good designer takes that into account.

This is my, hmm...how would you say, "intuition" too - that different driver types sound different because of different dispersion and perhaps distortion/break up characteristics and how they are integrated with the mid or mid/bass driver, in that similar driver types will be more similar in the crossover than not. For the sake of argument, let's just forget poorly designed speakers for this comparison, as there are obviously other factors at play there.

This would be an interesting test to do double blind, whether people could distinguish different types of high frequency drivers/implementations in speakers. Has this already been done to anyone's knowledge?

 

[fpitas]

This is my, hmm...how would you say, "intuition" too - that different driver types sound different because of different dispersion and perhaps distortion/break up characteristics and how they are integrated with the mid or mid/bass driver, in that similar driver types will be more similar in the crossover than not. For the sake of argument, let's just forget poorly designed speakers for this comparison, as there are obviously other factors at play there.

This would be an interesting test to do double blind, whether people could distinguish different types of high frequency drivers/implementations in speakers. Has this already been done to anyone's knowledge?

That's a tough test to do right. How would you account for the differing crossovers?

 

[Digby]

That's a tough test to do right. How would you account for the differing crossovers?

I don't know how far one could. I suppose you'd have to, as far as possible, pick similar crossovers between differing driver types. If the crossovers are so dissimilar to make that practically impossible, then the influence of the crossover cannot be ruled out.

If, by necessity, different driver types need differing crossovers, and they are found to sound dissimilar, I suppose we could say that different drivers do sound different to each other. Some of the difference (how much?) is in the crossover, and if it cannot be duplicated across differing driver types, but the outcome is the same (an audible difference in presentation), then I don't suppose it matters too much.

If a driver/crossover come as a team, and different drivers will have different (non-overlapping) crossovers by design, then whenever we talk of a characteristic sound, we are talking about both the driver and crossover implementation.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

I love AMT's in my limited use with them. I built a 3 way box with a B&G Neo PDRW and I love how it sounds. It disappears more than Ribbons that I have used. Ribbons often add nice sizzle and even though I like that, it doesn't sound as natural. High quality domes are great but don't seem quite as transparent as the AMT's. But I do think that the design and crossover has a lot to do with it. The way in which the AMT is mounted in the box can greatly change it's characteristics, which can make it challenging to design a crossover for. Plus, you have to consider how well any of these speakers fit in a given room. There are a lot of variables at play. I love mine though and my next design will incorporate some Mundorf AMT's.

 

[fpitas]

If a driver/crossover come as a team, and different drivers will have different (non-overlapping) crossovers by design, then whenever we talk of a characteristic sound, we are talking about both the driver and crossover implementation.

Bingo. Even very modestly priced drivers can sound wonderful with the right crossover. Maybe they don't go real loud etc. Conversely, even the best drivers will sound awful if you goof up the crossover.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Bingo. Even very modestly priced drivers can sound wonderful with the right crossover. Maybe they don't go real loud etc. Conversely, even the best drivers will sound awful if you goof up the crossover.

And furthermore, the way that they are implemented into a box or open baffle is as important. The AMT's that I have used seem to change their characteristics a bit more drastically based on how they are mounted so it can take more experimentation with this rather than just adding more components to the crossover to fix it.

 

[Digby]

I love AMT's in my limited use with them. I built a 3 way box with a B&G Neo PDRW and I love how it sounds

I have only heard AMTs in 2 way speakers, so don't know if what I heard could be different to how they would present in a 3 way design.

Bingo. Even very modestly priced drivers can sound wonderful with the right crossover. Maybe they don't go real loud etc. Conversely, even the best drivers will sound awful if you goof up the crossover.

Right, but this might be overstating the case. The speakers I heard with AMT drivers were quite highly regarded speakers. I doubt they would mess up the crossover. It is not impossible, but it is unlikely. Do many speakers with AMT drivers come with crossovers that could be much improved or only tweaked by degrees?

Perhaps a bit more likely is that, given a good crossover, in typical 2-way design, AMTs (as much as any other driver type) have a certain presentation that may be noticeable (tests needed?) and the listener will either care for it, or not.

 

[fpitas]

I have only heard AMTs in 2 way speakers, so don't know if what I heard could be different to how they would present in a 3 way design.


Right, but this might be overstating the case. The speakers I heard with AMT drivers were quite highly regarded speakers. I doubt they would mess up the crossover. It is not impossible, but it is unlikely. Do many speakers with AMT drivers come with crossovers that could be much improved or only tweaked by degrees?

Perhaps a bit more likely is that, given a good crossover, in typical 2-way design, AMTs (as much as any other driver type) have a certain presentation that may be noticeable (tests needed?) and the listener will either care for it, or not.

I'm not sure what you heard, admittedly. But don't think highly regarded speakers have good crossovers. Just look at some of the expensive sonic disasters tested here.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

I have only heard AMTs in 2 way speakers, so don't know if what I heard could be different to how they would present in a 3 way design.


Right, but this might be overstating the case. The speakers I heard with AMT drivers were quite highly regarded speakers. I doubt they would mess up the crossover. It is not impossible, but it is unlikely. Do many speakers with AMT drivers come with crossovers that could be much improved or only tweaked by degrees?

Perhaps a bit more likely is that, given a good crossover, in typical 2-way design, AMTs (as much as any other driver type) have a certain presentation that may be noticeable (tests needed?) and the listener will either care for it, or not.

I think this is true. Even with equally good crossovers, domes, ribbons and AMT's present slightly different to me. I like them all in different settings but prefer the AMT's. But I've never done a blind listening test so who knows....

 

[Digby]

I'm not sure what you heard, admittedly. But don't think highly regarded speakers have good crossovers. Just look at some of the expensive sonic disasters tested here.

One moderately expensive speaker (low four figures) was the Hedd 07 mk2. It has adjustments on the back for tweeter brightness. I could get it bright enough, even too bright, but it didn't sound just so. There was something a bit, I dunno, "flat" about the presentation. It sounded nice, but when it was supposed to sound harsh or aggressive (as denoted by the music), it couldn't do it.