Do internal speaker wires matter.

[bo_knows]

I really don't have any desire to change things. I was surprised in the video that step was recommended.

I was just answering your questions.

 

[77SunsetStrip]

Paul M. did himself no favors in that video promoting 10 or 12 gauge wire for internal speaker wiring. That is nonsense. However, he is correct about the other extreme of small gauge wire being widely used. Good quality copper wire is the right choice. Gauge based on current carrying design requirement, with a safety margin. Everything else in the signal path should be good quality also.

There are technical reasons voice coil wire has to be small. Not the least because it is part of the driver moving mass. Small voice coil wire does not correlate to small gauge everything feeding it being acceptable. If you start down the path of taking speakers apart, there is more than just wire that can be changed to possibly, emphasize possibly, change the sound. As an example in another thread, an inexpensive Pioneer speaker is "improved" with some modifications at one time offered by Dennis Murphy.

 

[Killingbeans]

Does it matter that there is thin gauge wire inside the speaker?

The resistance of a wire is a product of its length and gauge. A long wire needs to be thick in order to have low resistance. A short wire doesn't (within reason... Just do the math, and you're safe). So no, it doesn't matter.

Should we open our speaker cabinets now and remove this wire and install thicker gauge wire to gain better audio quality?

Nope. You can do it just for fun, but it will have zero influence on the sound quality.

 

[Wombat]

Not today nor most others.

 

[cjm2077]

Paul M. did himself no favors in that video promoting 10 or 12 gauge wire for internal speaker wiring. That is nonsense. However, he is correct about the other extreme of small gauge wire being widely used. Good quality copper wire is the right choice. Gauge based on current carrying design requirement, with a safety margin. Everything else in the signal path should be good quality also.

There are technical reasons voice coil wire has to be small. Not the least because it is part of the driver moving mass. Small voice coil wire does not correlate to small gauge everything feeding it being acceptable. If you start down the path of taking speakers apart, there is more than just wire that can be changed to possibly, emphasize possibly, change the sound. As an example in another thread, an inexpensive Pioneer speaker is "improved" with some modifications at one time offered by Dennis Murphy.

Fusing current for a 20 AWG Copper wire is about 60 Amps. Wiring in free space 20 AWG is rated for 11 amps (https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm). That would be about equivalent to 500W into a 4 ohm speaker. Continuous. We know no real music/amp/speaker/listener combo is going to do that for any length of time in the real world. Peak current would be equivalent to the fusing rating, average long term output power would be the chassis wiring rating. There is another rating in that table, but it's for the wire in a bundle with other wires with little space to radiate heat, so it's not a situation speaker wiring will ever see.

The crossover board is usually relatively close to the input speaker jacks, and the power-hungry woofers are usually relatively close to the inputs/crossover as well in the designs I've seen. So loss in the wiring is not a big concern either. Unless you're doing things at the very extremes (tiny wire, huge wattage, enormous enclosure) then wiring gauge is not making a difference in your speaker design.

 

[Speedskater]

Measure the voice coil resistance of a typical 8 Ohm driver, it will be about 6 Ohms (maybe a little more). One thousand feet of 18AWG wire will also have about a 6 Ohm resistance. It's a series circuit, so a small wire size chance just a few feet long won't have any impact.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

The resistance of a wire is a product of its length and gauge. A long wire needs to be thick in order to have low resistance. A short wire doesn't (within reason... Just do the math, and you're safe). So no, it doesn't matter.

This. Chances are, the internal wiring in the speakers is even more conductive than the wire most people run from the amplifier to the speakers because of its short length.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Measure the voice coil resistance of a typical 8 Ohm driver, it will be about 6 Ohms (maybe a little more). One thousand feet of 18AWG wire will also have about a 6 Ohm resistance. It's a series circuit, so a small wire size chance just a few feet long won't have any impact.

Great post! That shows just how little the wiring affects the sound. Standard run of the mill OFC 12ga speaker wire is overkill for 99% of home systems. Then to have an 18 inch piece of 16 ga wire go to your speakers drivers does not matter. I have put 10 amps continuous into 22ga wire with no ill effect to the wire. The wire just does what the wire does, it allows the electrons to flow with minimal resistance. For human hearing? internal wires do not matter as long as they are 16 to 18ga. You have to remember and I'm just guessing here, but probably 95% of the people who care about audio are always obsessing over the wrong thing. The lack of knowledge keeps so many companies in business that should be out of business. ASR "tries" to educate but even on this fantastic site snake oil and obsessing over nothing important is done every single day.

 

[preload]

All decent speaker manufacturers (e.g. the likes of KEF, Revel etc) will have maximised the performance of their product. If they thought that a few extra pennies on the internal wiring would have given an advantage they’d have seized the opportunity.

That's not how large companies operate. If they can save a few pennies you can bet the part will get substituted.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

That's not how large companies operate. If they can save a few pennies you can bet the part will get substituted.

The difference between the mediocre quality audio we find in consumer products and pretty good audio is a few pennies...

So we get the mediocre audio.

 

[ta240]

Serious question: Do these mongers of BS actually believe what they say, or do they just say it anyway? I know the pressure is on to maintain a continuous stream of clickbait...

I think they do believe it. We all want to feel like we belong in a group and the different factions in audio are groups and to those that have risen to be in the leadership it probably feels quite good. His belief may have started before he had information to counter it and it has been reinforced by the people he surrounds himself with throughout the years.
The internet and its access to every bit of information in the known world hasn't helped spread truth it has strengthened our opinions instead by letting us associate nearly exclusively with those that agree with us.

I watched about thirty videos and have grown dismayed with some of the advice given. I realize there will be a bias because he is selling audio products, but some of the conclusions are not based on science or data but conjecture.

But he is personable and folksy and people really like that. Who wants their audio designed by someone boring?

 

[egellings]

What about the very thin wire in the drivers' voice coils? That's where it all ends up.

 

[ahofer]

Paul was agitated by this and opined that it was not a good practice but did not offer any scientific data that it undermined audio quality,

He never has and never will.

 

[DonH56]

"Do internal speaker wires matter."

Yes -- they must be there. Other than that, not so much...

 

[egellings]

With lengths so short, It's not that critical in a living room speaker. Likely any decent 18 to 16 gauge would work just fine.

 

[coonmanx]

I have been working on recapping a set of crossovers for a pair to two ways that I use. I actually have a spare set of crossovers so there is no down time at all. I am also replacing all of the tiny wire with 14 gauge of the same colors. Wire I got at the auto parts store. Because why not? It's easy enough to do and cheap as well. It just looks better.

The original stuff was thin, maybe 22 AWG.

 

[roog]

What about the very thin wire in the drivers' voice coils? That's where it all ends up.

Yes, we should discard the undersized rubbish voice coils that an engineer has already considered and selected and wind our own and then shoe horn the much improved fat voice coil into the air gap with a mallet.

 

[MusicNBeer]

For all practical purposes, it makes no difference whatsoever. With a passive crossover, the woofer circuit contains a series inductor that's tens of feet long and probably 16 guage or even higher. Even this inductor is not a problem when it's considered in the design for the woofer/box interaction (damping). For the midrange and tweeter, the internal wiring resistance is so low it's moot, and even if it wasn't, the measurements performed by the manufacturer would show the effects. The designer would then compensate for the resistance by adjusting crossover values. Do not waste money and mess with internal wiring. It's completely pointless and if anything, could make things worse.

 

[coonmanx]

LOL. I doubt that putting in some better wiring is going to "make things worse". That is a new one...

 

[audio2design]

When you realize that most of "audiophile" componentry relates to sound engineering practices about as much as homeopathy relates to medicine then it all starts to make sense.