Do internal speaker wires matter.

[voodooless]

So for two wires of the exact same diameter a 100 inch long copper wire will have the same conductivity as a 107 inch long silver wire.

So how can one then claim that gold and platinum are better than copper, if conductivity is your yardstick?

 

[Deleted member 46664]

So how can one then claim that gold and platinum are better than copper, if conductivity is your yardstick?

You can't ... but when marketing is your yardstick, exotic materials and gullible customers really pay off.

 

[Speedskater]

So how can one then claim that gold and platinum are better than copper, if conductivity is your yardstick?

Audiophile equipment marketing departments make countless untrue claims every day.
Unfortunately many audiophiles believe them.
But there is a general misunderstanding about what "conductivity" means.

 

[dromichet50]

I googled this question to find out what people think about internal wires since I'm faced with a dilemma. The first hit brought me to this forum.

My dilemma is that I have these Polks RTi A7 tower speakers that sounded good stock. A bit bright and the voice a bit too much in your face, but otherwise good. They're entry-mid tier speakers but they have potential. Since I got them for free I figured I should upgrade the crossovers with some better caps so I chose Jantzen mid tier caps, about $40 per speaker. I converted one speaker first and figured I will also change the 16ga internal wire to some 12ga monster speaker wire I had. I did it because I had the wire so why not.

A/B'd stock and upgraded speaker and they sounded like 2 different speakers. Not going into sound differences now, let's say I liked the upgrade and moved to upgrade the second speaker. With the second one I got lazy and figured I'll leave the stock internal wires instead of the monster cables since I had a hard time fitting them in the first speaker.

A/B'd the speakers again and to my surprise they had very noticeable sound signatures. Monster speaker had a lot more bass, the sound was fuller, the instruments which were behind the voice before were brought up in line with the voice, coloring the voice a bit. The stock wire speaker maintained the voice forward, had significantly less bass and the sound is more spacious.

This difference is very apparent when switching them back and forth with a switch and placed side by side facing the listener. I'm not an audiophile and do not believe in cables.

My dilemma is that both speakers have their strengths. Put my family through the ordeal of a/b'ing the speakers and the consensus was 55/45 in favor of the stock wire speaker. In their words, the stock wire sounds like a live performance while the monster sounds like a studio mix with everything more balanced. The 10% difference is in their preference, not the difference in sound. I find the difference is a lot bigger than 10%.

I suggest people to do this test themselves on their speakers and invest in a switch so they can switch in the middle of the song. Only then a normal listener would notice the difference different components make.

Again, I'm not a believer in cables and I'm still surprised at the difference between the speakers in this test. Four pages of people's beliefs without actual testing is a bit of a wasted time if you ask me. I wish more people would post actual tests they've done. It would help more people make a decision in the future.

 

[voodooless]

If the speaker we’re at the exact same location, basically all bets are off. Or you’d need to swap the speakers mid test to make sure they both get equal time on every side. Was the testing done blind? I bet you knew which is which all the time.

Did you measure them? Any issues in reassembling the crossover should be evident from that.

Audio Blind Tests and Listener Training (video)

I see so many people claiming to have done blind tests in youtube videos recently without knowing what it means to perform one. Also, the topic of training comes up with many abusing the term. So I decided on a whim to create a video on it. It is rather long at 44 minutes but you can speed it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Killingbeans]

Again, I'm not a believer in cables and I'm still surprised at the difference between the speakers in this test.

I would be too. But I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the internal wiring being the cause. It would go against the complete amassed knowledge humanity has of physics and electronics. Feel free to call me a cynic, but I doubt internal speaker wiring can be the epiphany we need to get a breakthrough of that magintude.

Like @voodooless points out, you could just inadvertently have changed one of the crossovers. For instance by making a cold solder joint. Or it could be something as simple as speaker placement.

And then there's placebo. Contrary to common logic it is not negated by our prior beliefs. The mere idea of something taking place can be more than enough to get the effect going. You can't just will it away. None of us can. Combine it with the Clever Hans effect, and you can quickly get at ton of false data points.

 

[dromichet50]

No blind test was needed as the difference is very obvious. Same sound, just that the monster had a fuller deeper sound, favoring instruments especially strings. The speakers were side-by-side, maybe 2 inches apart angled to face the listener directly. Swapped them around as well.

I will put the stock wires back in tonight to make sure the tower and its speakers don't have a different sound on their own although this was not experienced before the upgrade. Not sure how common it is for the actual speakers to have a different sound based on if they were manufactured on Monday versus one manufactured on Thursday. Like the old myth about performance of cars build on different days of the week.

 

[voodooless]

No blind test was needed as the difference is very obvious.

That’s what they all said… until they actually performed a blind test or found some obvious reason it actually sounded different. A different cable is not one of them.

 

[antcollinet]

I would also be suspicious of the "upgraded" capacitors you have fitted - even if you have fitted them faultlessly. It could easily be that the capacitors you have fitted into each speaker are not well matched.

"audiophile" grade capacitors rarely have genuine magical properties to improve the design of whatever you put them into.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

New members first post is about Monster Cable...

 

[dromichet50]

That's why I went with mid tier film caps as I don't think the higher grades give much more. Definitely a lot better quality then the stock, nail size electrolytics.

And no, it's not about monster cables, just lower gauge cables. I used what I had not thinking much of it.

 

[Killingbeans]

No blind test was needed as the difference is very obvious.

People have the same experience with every single hocus pocus tweak and snake oil product out there.

Not saying that this makes placebo the only explanation available, but the "very obvious" argument is definitely not enough to rule it out.

 

[Midnight Audiophile]

New members first post is about Monster Cable...

Internal speaker wiring with Monster Cable is not unheard of:

 

[Speedskater]

That's why I went with mid tier film caps as I don't think the higher grades give much more. Definitely a lot better quality then the stock, nail size electrolytics.

Maybe switching from electrolytics to film capacitors had some to do with it.

 

[srrxr71]

I watched about thirty videos and have grown dismayed with some of the advice given. I realize there will be a bias because he is selling audio products, but some of the conclusions are not based on science or data but conjecture.

He we grew up on clowns like this. Be thankful todays audio folk don’t have to deal with it.

So he did have some interesting historical stories though. The Adcom one was great. So Adcom made (makes?) some nice preamps and amps. They even made some CD player everyone got their underwear wet over.

So Adcom just stands for “additional commission”. Those days you had reps selling these products. Some of the stuff was just unbranded stuff that some engineer designed and built in his garage.

So this guy picks up this guy’s equipment and sells it for additional commission. He called the stuff Adcom.

The whole industry was mostly based on scams. The kinds of pseudo science I have read trying to explain some of these items is incredible.

Even respected speaker makers will make something dumb like the Totem Beak to capture some extra $$$.

 

[DMill]

Internal speaker wiring with Monster Cable is not unheard of:

View attachment 233836

Monster Cable was the rage back in the 80s. Very few sources of information so many consumers just assumed it was a benefit. I’m certain there were a number amps wired with Monster too and they would proudly put a sticker on the back letting you know. I think Kenwood was one.?

 

[Midnight Audiophile]

Monster Cable was the rage back in the 80s. Very few sources of information so many consumers just assumed it was a benefit. I’m certain there were a number amps wired with Monster too and they would proudly put a sticker on the back letting you know. I think Kenwood was one.?

I remember that. I had a Kenwood component system and Pioneer amp in my first car in the early 80s. In the mid 90s I put a pretty decent system in a Supra and I believe Monster Cables were standard fare by then. I don't see it as Yamaha making any crazy claims about it, just basically like saying we use quality parts to ensure optimum sound quality.

 

[DMill]

Was Monster Cable the first to start the cable scam? they were the first I remember. Hell, people were buying Pet Rocks in the 80s. Why not an overpriced decently made audio cable?