Do I need to upgrade my amps?

[Panelhead]

You might consider going from bridged to single amp. The Spectra are current hungry. Bridging increases voltage swing. But does nothing for current delivery. Also doubles the output impedance.
I used Acoustat III for many years. Wish I still had them.

 

[CDMC]

Howdy,

I live in Wyoming so howdy is a standard greeting

I have ordered the Umik-1, it should be here sometime next week. I do have a pair of M&K V-125 Sub-woofers that I can and will integrate into the mix this weekend. (just to see what it does sound wise to my ear). Then if I like the sound I will run ARC and let it do its thing. I am excited to play with the Umik-1 and REW.

I do IT for a living so doing nerdy stuff on a computer is right up my alley.

All the help is much apprecaited!

Jesse

With your background, you will probably get a great deal of use and information from the UMIK-1. I anticipate that it will also allow you to approach any changes in your system in a methodical manner.

 

[DWPress]

Quite a few fine points have been made, question is how much do you want to change your sound if you like it now? Amplifier wise, going to new efficient Class D could save you hundreds of dollars a year for a start! 230 watt current draw on those each x8, is that 1840 watts at idle?

You have a Umik-1 on the way, will soon discover REW and then it is a crazy rabbit hole from there and plenty of other software DSP/DRC options out there. Soon you'll see what you hear and have a solid foundation to determine what to do next based on your rooms needs. There is a learning curve but it sounds like you'll enjoy the ride. There is a good tutorial on the Roon forums here and if you use the MMM (moving microphone measurement) it's a great method to get a very quick impression of your room and a good guide to using REW for the first time.

 

[Willem]

Lower electricity consumption is certainly one of the advantages of class D amplifiers, and this is obviously attractive for both financial and environmental reasons. So they are clearly the design of the future, and all the more so since at least in Europe mandatory efficiency targets are being imposed for all kinds of consumer goods.
At the same time as an individual one has to balance where to invest for the best financial and ecological result. A few years ago we installed solar panels and these produce about 4500 kilowatts a year out of our then 6000 kilowatt consumption. Financially, this was a very attractive decision. We have subsequently worked to further reduce our consumption, and that is now about 5000 kilowatt, by replacing almost all lights by leds, and by replacing an old and unbelievably power hungry (and hence noisy) Samsung set top box by a misery modern one that consumes less than a quarter of the old one. None of this cost much, and the financial benefits have been more than worthwhile. My latest discovery is that the two old electrical pumps in our floor heating system consume about 1000 kilowatts a year without us really noticing. Modern ones would cost about 600 euros to install, but can reduce consumption to about 300 kilowatt. Since one of our current pumps is already old and the other is unnecessarily noisy, replacing them will be a good move. And that points to the financial wisdom in these decisions: if you are replacing something that is on its last leg, it will not cost anything extra to generate what will often be major savings. Replacing equipment that is still fully functional only makes financial sense if the savings are really large. So after the heating pumps, my next investment will be in a new desktop computer for my home office. My current one dates from 2007 (it was a very fast one at the time), and is not only a bit slow for video conferencing but also very power hungry. Not surprisingly it is also noisy, and now that I use it to stream music in my office more than ever noise is something I can do without. The next one will be a fanless low energy consumption model. That should save another few hundred kilowatts a year, amounting to about $100 a year at our energy prices.

 

[CDMC]

Lower electricity consumption is certainly one of the advantages of class D amplifiers, and this is obviously attractive for both financial and environmental reasons. So they are clearly the design of the future, and all the more so since at least in Europe mandatory efficiency targets are being imposed for all kinds of consumer goods.
At the same time as an individual one has to balance where to invest for the best financial and ecological result. A few years ago we installed solar panels and these produce about 4500 kilowatts a year out of our then 6000 kilowatt consumption. Financially, this was a very attractive decision. We have subsequently worked to further reduce our consumption, and that is now about 5000 kilowatt, by replacing almost all lights by leds, and by replacing an old and unbelievably power hungry (and hence noisy) Samsung set top box by a misery modern one that consumes less than a quarter of the old one. None of this cost much, and the financial benefits have been more than worthwhile. My latest discovery is that the two old electrical pumps in our floor heating system consume about 1000 kilowatts a year without us really noticing. Modern ones would cost about 600 euros to install, but can reduce consumption to about 300 kilowatt. Since one of our current pumps is already old and the other is unnecessarily noisy, replacing them will be a good move. And that points to the financial wisdom in these decisions: if you are replacing something that is on its last leg, it will not cost anything extra to generate what will often be major savings. Replacing equipment that is still fully functional only makes financial sense if the savings are really large. So after the heating pumps, my next investment will be in a new desktop computer for my home office. My current one dates from 2007 (it was a very fast one at the time), and is not only a bit slow for video conferencing but also very power hungry. Not surprisingly it is also noisy, and now that I use it to stream music in my office more than ever noise is something I can do without. The next one will be a fanless low energy consumption model. That should save another few hundred kilowatts a year, amounting to about $100 a year at our energy prices.

Not sure where I read it, but going to LEDs provides the most energy savings for the least money. Replacing an old HVAC system with a higher efficiency one and properly sealed and insulated ducts makes a large difference also, but only worth it if the unit needs to be replaced. New windows, unless going from single pane to double, make almost no difference. I am getting ready to replace the siding on my house and have been calculating energy losses. In our mild California climate, I get almost no savings from going from R11 wall insulation to R19, but major gains from air sealing and upgrading the attic from R19 to R38.

Sorry to pull it off track, but seems like a worthwhile discussion. I am not an environmentalist by any means, but also think it is wise for us to take reasonable steps where possible to decrease our use of resources.

 

[Willem]

Compared to tungsten or halogen lights (now almost completely banned in the EU) led lighting saves about 90% and by now they are pretty cheap and available in more and more shapes and sizes. And they last for ages which is another real labour saving benefit. Finally, they save electricity precisely when the solar panels do not produce anything.
We obviously do not need airconditioning. For us it is all about keeping the cold out, so home insulation standards and more advanced double and now triple glazing standards for new homes have increasingly been raised by the government. This has encouraged technical innovation and created a market for the best technologies. And of course a better insulated home is also more comfortable. Our homes are heated by natural gas of which we have a lot. Sadly its extraction has increasingly generated pretty serious earthquakes so is now being phased out. The choice is now Russian gas or a rapid conversion to renewables like heat pumps powered by solar and wind energy.

 

[Wongdongfu]

Howdy,

I have got a Mivera 1200AS2 IcePower amp on the way. I was able to get it second hand from a friend who needs some cash. So I figure I would give it a shot as a Class D amp. Then If I like the way it sounds. I would rethink my amp setup, most likely looking into multiple top end March Audio amps for the current theater setup. I will be honest, every time I turn the current system on my lights dim as the amps turn on. So having that not happen will be a big relief. I have been reading up on the Class D amps and there are many good reviews over the last 2 or so years.

I am sure there is still a decent used market for my Marantz mono blocks out there in the world. So I hope the Class D sounds as good as my Marantz amps do now. And if they do I will have a few Marantz monoblocks for sale.

Thank you again.

Jesse

 

[AnalogSteph]

Replacing equipment that is still fully functional only makes financial sense if the savings are really large. So after the heating pumps, my next investment will be in a new desktop computer for my home office. My current one dates from 2007 (it was a very fast one at the time), and is not only a bit slow for video conferencing but also very power hungry. Not surprisingly it is also noisy, and now that I use it to stream music in my office more than ever noise is something I can do without. The next one will be a fanless low energy consumption model. That should save another few hundred kilowatts a year, amounting to about $100 a year at our energy prices.

Fanless is not really worth it, neither for power supplies nor for full systems. Significant extra expense with highly questionable return. Systems with fans can be very, very quiet these days. Get a decent "silent" case, a board with good fan control, a quiet PSU (like some of the better BeQuiet! series), some Noctua fans and a rather oversized CPU cooler and put some thought into airflow, and you should be set.

But yeah, a system from 2007 would be long overdue by now. That would have to be a 65 nm Core 2 Duo or Quad with pre-80Plus supply, definitely neither a power miser nor a performance king. Maybe still with spinning rust, too? Even something 4 or 5 years newer would be substantially more efficient.

Compared to tungsten or halogen lights (now almost completely banned in the EU) led lighting saves about 90% and by now they are pretty cheap and available in more and more shapes and sizes. And they last for ages which is another real labour saving benefit.

Tell that to the two failed LED bulbs that I've had to replace here already. LED lighting only lasts "for ages" if build quality and cooling is up to par. That doesn't go together with cheap.

Oh, and outright banning conventional lightbulbs was a bit of a stupid idea. Try finding some for a bulb tester these days, very annoying.

 

[Willem]

My wife has a modern high end desktop with a silenced case etc etc. It is fast and remarkably quiet but not totally so. So I would still prefer a fanless one and that should be quite feasible given my relatively modest demands on computing power. My old one is mostly still fast enough apart from the currently increased use for video conferencing. I notice that this works rather more smoothly on my wife's powerhouse.
As for led lights, I only buy Osram or Philips and those are utterly reliable. I have not seen a bulb tester for ages. I do believe such transitions as moving over to leds can be done far more effectively and economically if mandated from above. That quickly creates a market to justify investment in technology and new manufacturing processes. I obseve the same with mandated power consumption stsndards for refrigerators, washing machines or vacuum cleaners. All that stuff consumes only half or even a quarter of what it did only a few years ago.
Anyway, I am curious to hear about Jesse's amplifier updates.

 

[Wongdongfu]

Howdy,

I integrated the (2) M&K subs into the current system. Did the always fun bass crawl all over the room. A few hours later and my wife asking me WTF are you doing, and when will you be done with all the noise to many times to count. I believe the 2 extra subs have made a big difference in the overall quality of the low end. There does not seem to be much if any strain in the lower frequencies. 4 subs in total seem to be worth the pain to integrate.

Still waiting for my UMIK-1 and Class D test amp to show.

Will let you know more once I get my new toys.

Thank you again for all the advice.

Jesse

 

[Willem]

Good to hear. This is indeed what was to be expected.

 

[Wongdongfu]

Howdy,

A few updates and thoughts, I also need some advice.

First Life got busy, I was able to take 4 of my Marantz Mono blocks out of the loop and hook up the Mivera 1200AS2 IcePower amp to the Acoustat Spectra 22’s. The speakers sound as good as they did with the Marantz mono blocks if not a tad bit cleaner sounding. Still plenty of room filling sound. I think many of you were right with the thoughts of bridging the mono blocks was adding tons more power but also a hint of distortion. I think the change so far has been a good one. The “gritty” sound is much less even with grunge music.

When it comes to the REW and UMIK-1. I have had zero time to play, also with basketball playoffs going my family will not let me kick them out of the great room. (the great room is where all my gear is) So I will get some time to play with the UMIK-1 and REW eventually.

Now I am thinking of making the change to Class D for all Amps in the great room. I think I want to do it with 1 rack mount 8 channel amp. This one class D amp would replace all 8 of my Marantz monoblocks.

Here is where it gets a bit funky.

First let me say I do not want to put anyone on the spot or cause BS. (I have not talked to or emailed Amirm or VTV Amplifiers) I am spit balling off the top of my head.

But I was thinking of emailing VTV Amplifiers and letting them know that I was planning on ordering the VTV Amplifier Eight Channel Hypex NC502MP NCore Amplifier 500X8 ($2149). Then I was hoping I could get it shipped off to Amirm so he could test this style of amp. I am 100% in favor of letting VTV know that I plan on buying the amp, having it reviewed – performance charted for the ASR community and I would be purchasing this amp to keep and use for my entire great room theater system. (I think it would be best if both Amirm and VTV agree that its ok for me to do this before it would happen)

When I look over the review database, I do not see any reviews – performance charts etc. for VTV Amplifiers from Amirm or do I see an 8 channel Hypex NCore review from any vendor in the review database. (am I blind?)

This type of thing could be a very good thing for the VTV people, with just seeing the performance overview charts and a few thoughts from Amirm on build quality pics etc. (much like Amirm did when he charted a March Audio amp) This could squash any questions that ASR users have about VTV.

From reading over many of the forum posts about VTV Amps some ASR users believe there is a build quality issues others think VTV are great with no issues. VTV is the only company that I now of that is US based that makes this style of 8 channel amp in a rack mount with 12v trigger (all these features are what I want in a amp)

Again, not trying to cause BS between vendors or put Amirm in a crap position. But I like the amp package that VTV are offering and I think it might be good for the community to have a VTV amp reviewed – performance charted, and it could stomp out any questions on build quality etc. that many forum users have.

Second, Once Amirm is done with his review of the VTV Amp (if he even wants to review it) and he sends me the 8 channel amp back for my use. I will then send him (if he wants to review it) the Mivera 1200AS IcePower amp. I know many people have asked for the 1200AS board to be reviewed - performance charted. But I do not see one in the review database.

Since I will no longer need the amp. I figure if Amirm wants to review it I will send it to him, and he can do that review and stick it in the database for all the ASR users. Then I can sale it or use it in my office etc. I am sure ill figure out a place to put an amp in my life.

So a few things.
#1. am I being an *sshole to either Amirm or VTV? I could just buy the amp and try it and if I don’t like it send it back If I do like it (which I am sure I will) it will be the only amp in my rack.. But I think the ASR community would love to see what an 8 channel Hypex amp could do. Plus, there could be a big win for VTV here. But there could also be a WTF for VTV

#2. Do people still want to see the 1200AS2 IcePower amp reviewed or is that time passed? I do not see many 1200as amps come up for sale since the Hypex and purify amps came out.

Thank you for all responses. I look forward to coming to this site every day. It’s a fun place for a nerd like me.

Jesse

 

[NTK]

If I were you, there are a couple of things that would definitely alarm me.

First is thermal issue. Per the Hypex NC502MP datasheet, idle loss is 6.5 W per channel. With 8 channels, it is 52 W of heat output during idle. (If you follow the heat dissipation graph, it is significantly worse.) From the pictures in the VTV website, the 8-ch NC502MP amp does not look like it has much in terms of heat rejection provisions (i.e. massive heat sinks and fan). Unless I have missed them, this thing is going to spew fire.

Second is the total power output far exceeds the power available at wall AC outlet. You may be able to get short term peaks, or sustained rated power for one or two channels, but definitely not for all channels at the same time. But I am pretty sure the amp will run into thermal issue long before source power issue. I'd much rather use separate units instead of a single 8 ch one.

 

[CDMC]

I would be more inclined to purchase one of these:

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/xpa-7-gen3

 

[Wongdongfu]

Thank you all,

I will check into the Emotiva. I will also send VTV an email asking a few questions about thermals, power inputs etc.

Thank you!

Jesse

 

[Astrozombie]

I would say don't tell them you are going to review the Amp, they could possibly "cherry pick" a good one to send to you.

 

[wjp007]

Howdy,

A few updates and thoughts, I also need some advice.

First Life got busy, I was able to take 4 of my Marantz Mono blocks out of the loop and hook up the Mivera 1200AS2 IcePower amp to the Acoustat Spectra 22’s. The speakers sound as good as they did with the Marantz mono blocks if not a tad bit cleaner sounding. Still plenty of room filling sound. I think many of you were right with the thoughts of bridging the mono blocks was adding tons more power but also a hint of distortion. I think the change so far has been a good one. The “gritty” sound is much less even with grunge music.

When it comes to the REW and UMIK-1. I have had zero time to play, also with basketball playoffs going my family will not let me kick them out of the great room. (the great room is where all my gear is) So I will get some time to play with the UMIK-1 and REW eventually.

Now I am thinking of making the change to Class D for all Amps in the great room. I think I want to do it with 1 rack mount 8 channel amp. This one class D amp would replace all 8 of my Marantz monoblocks.

Here is where it gets a bit funky.

First let me say I do not want to put anyone on the spot or cause BS. (I have not talked to or emailed Amirm or VTV Amplifiers) I am spit balling off the top of my head.

But I was thinking of emailing VTV Amplifiers and letting them know that I was planning on ordering the VTV Amplifier Eight Channel Hypex NC502MP NCore Amplifier 500X8 ($2149). Then I was hoping I could get it shipped off to Amirm so he could test this style of amp. I am 100% in favor of letting VTV know that I plan on buying the amp, having it reviewed – performance charted for the ASR community and I would be purchasing this amp to keep and use for my entire great room theater system. (I think it would be best if both Amirm and VTV agree that its ok for me to do this before it would happen)

When I look over the review database, I do not see any reviews – performance charts etc. for VTV Amplifiers from Amirm or do I see an 8 channel Hypex NCore review from any vendor in the review database. (am I blind?)

This type of thing could be a very good thing for the VTV people, with just seeing the performance overview charts and a few thoughts from Amirm on build quality pics etc. (much like Amirm did when he charted a March Audio amp) This could squash any questions that ASR users have about VTV.

From reading over many of the forum posts about VTV Amps some ASR users believe there is a build quality issues others think VTV are great with no issues. VTV is the only company that I now of that is US based that makes this style of 8 channel amp in a rack mount with 12v trigger (all these features are what I want in a amp)

Again, not trying to cause BS between vendors or put Amirm in a crap position. But I like the amp package that VTV are offering and I think it might be good for the community to have a VTV amp reviewed – performance charted, and it could stomp out any questions on build quality etc. that many forum users have.

Second, Once Amirm is done with his review of the VTV Amp (if he even wants to review it) and he sends me the 8 channel amp back for my use. I will then send him (if he wants to review it) the Mivera 1200AS IcePower amp. I know many people have asked for the 1200AS board to be reviewed - performance charted. But I do not see one in the review database.

Since I will no longer need the amp. I figure if Amirm wants to review it I will send it to him, and he can do that review and stick it in the database for all the ASR users. Then I can sale it or use it in my office etc. I am sure ill figure out a place to put an amp in my life.

So a few things.
#1. am I being an *sshole to either Amirm or VTV? I could just buy the amp and try it and if I don’t like it send it back If I do like it (which I am sure I will) it will be the only amp in my rack.. But I think the ASR community would love to see what an 8 channel Hypex amp could do. Plus, there could be a big win for VTV here. But there could also be a WTF for VTV

#2. Do people still want to see the 1200AS2 IcePower amp reviewed or is that time passed? I do not see many 1200as amps come up for sale since the Hypex and purify amps came out.

Thank you for all responses. I look forward to coming to this site every day. It’s a fun place for a nerd like me.

Jesse

How was the imaging and stereo separation. I just built an Icepower 1200A2 based amp and I feel I took a hit on imaging and stereo separation.

 

[Willem]

That would really surprise me. Amplifiers of this quality do not normally have sonic issues. To be honest I am more interested in the subwoofer part of the story. My own listening space is almost as large, so I am planning to add another subwoofer.