Do I need to upgrade my amps?

[Wongdongfu]

Howdy,

Hoping for a few recommendations. Or is what I am doing good enough! The speaker and amp combo sound great to me. But there is this itching in the back of my head saying if I get better amps I would get better sound.

Here is the current setup. I use this setup for both Movies and Music.

Preamp is Anthem Statement D2 – Amps are Marantz MA500’s – Speakers are Acoustat Spectra 22’s -

The Acoustat Spectra 22 Electrostatic Speakers that are being driven by (2) Marantz MA500 Mono blocks per speaker – (yes Marantz made a mono block that can bridge into another mono block of the same type allowing you to get more power into 8 and 4 ohms. (Both the Marantz MA 500 and Marantz MA 700 were bridgeable mono blocks) The Acoustat Spectra's are not efficient and are very power hungry.

The specs of these amps are below. The MA500 is no longer in production. My amps are 20+ years old but still seem to be doing great.. I am not an engineer so I can not specifically say that the specs on these MA500's are great or not. Reviews from the internet are good on these mono blocks. But again, I have the itch that I could get better sound with more current amps. Again I am bridging my MA 500s (2) amps per speaker.

Specs from the manual:

MA-500

Continuous power output (RMS)

8 ohm

20 Hz - 20 KHz <.05% THD 125 W

4 ohm

20 Hz - 20 KHz <.09% THD 180 W

EIA Dynamic power

8 ohm - 170W

4 ohm - 270W

2 ohm - 320 W


Bridged mode (2 x MA-500)

Continuous power output (RMS)

8 ohm

20 Hz - 20 KHz <.1% THD 360 W


EIA Dynamic power

8 ohm - 500W

4 - 600W

Damping factor at 8:

200

Frequency response 1 W 10 Hz - 100 kHz ± 1 dB

S/N ratio 116 dB

Input sensitivity/impedance 1 V/30 k


General
Power requirements 120 V, 60 Hz, 230 W

Dimensions W/H/D

3 5/16 X 5 1/2 X 17 3/4

84mm x 140mm x 451mm

Weight 14 lbs. 6.4 kg.

Again I think it sounds good to great. But I have the itch that It could be better – I would be willing to spend $2000 -$3000 (us) on an amp upgrade. But It would need to be appreciably better then what I am getting now. Slightly better is not worth it in my opinion.

Anyone have thoughts and or recommendations?

Thanks in advance

Jesse

 

[Willem]

Don't bother other than have them serviced/recapped.

 

[PG55]

+1
I know that itch well and unfortunately I usually end up wishing for my previous set up that I thought was good to great to begin with

 

[Vini darko]

Yeah agree with above posters. Your amps are quality and you enjoy their preformance. The money may be better spent improving your room and running software based room correction.

 

[Midwest Blade]

Last summer I had my Quad 34/405-2 preamp and amp serviced at an authorized shop. Result - good as new for a total cost of $350. Unless you really really really want some new gear, a quick check at a qualified service shop may be all you need.

 

[CDMC]

I would be concerned that the Acoustats would be too hard of a load for those amps, but they have been driving them for 20 years without a problem. Get them recapped and keep using them. If you are dying to replace them, get a P452 from March Audio, which is a purifi amp which will comfortably drive your speakers.

 

[anmpr1]

If you are happy with the Spectras I'd advise keeping what you have. If I was going to spend a lot of money on new amps, I'd get new loudspeakers. You'll immediately be able to tell a large difference with new loudspeakers. With a new amp? Not as big a difference, if any.

That said, you could demo an AHB2 amplifier for a few weeks to see. That's really the only way to be sure. If you don't like it, send it back. Benchmark is the current SOA champion for low distortion and has enough power for your loudspeakers. I suspect your Acoustat panels will distort before the Benchmark amp does.

In the mid to late '80s I ran tall skinny Acoustats using their TNT 200 amp. Acoustats could take a lot of power, but if you played them too loud they sounded compressed. I remember them as being low impedance and current hungry. The Spectra is a different animal than the earlier models, so I don't know about them.

 

[Wongdongfu]

Thank you all for the input! I appreciate all the help and opinions.

Jesse

 

[CDMC]

If you are happy with the Spectras I'd advise keeping what you have. If I was going to spend a lot of money on new amps, I'd get new loudspeakers. You'll immediately be able to tell a large difference with new loudspeakers. With a new amp? Not as big a difference, if any.

I agree with this. The OP didn't ask, but when I look at his system, what I see missing are subwoofers. The Spectra 22s have a built in high pass at 100hz (selectable) and were designed with the idea of using supplemental bass drivers (Acoustat sold a companion Sepctra Passive Woofer with 4 6.5" drivers and a low pass at 100hz). Adding a pair of subwoofers to the Spectras would allow them to have greater dynamics and massively improve the bass. I would suggest looking at a pair of Rythmik L12s (about $1100 a pair) or F12 ($2000 a pair). To me this would represent a major upgrade and the best value in an upgrade.

 

[Wongdongfu]

Howdy,

I have (2) SVS Subs that accompany the Spectra's I can list out the entire system in my next post. (I am at work so a bit slow on replies right now)

 

[Wongdongfu]

Howdy,

The system is straight forward home theater system that I also listen to music with. I have a wife and 4 youngish kids. So, with kids and possible wife aggro. I cannot have super cool stuff out where it will get broke and be on display. So, I have my gear in an AV closet that is in a large rack that is out of the way.

I run what I believe is a simple straight forward home theater system. We have the fun parts setup in a large great room / living room. The room is 960 sq ft with vaulted ceilings and a large front wall. (I can post pics if needed). The large front wall is where the 82” TV, front speakers, center, and 1 of the 2 subs reside. The second sub is towards the rear of the room. The surround speakers are B&W 683 towers. I went with tower speakers for the rears because I needed more volume and umph with such a large room. Everything seems to sound great. I am sure ARC room correction has a good part to play in why it sounds so good to my ears. But again, I have the itch it could be better with different amps. I am a regular working dude who loves audio gear. My wife puts up with my large speakers and knows that audio and movies are my release from the real world, but I am sure there is a limit to what she will put up with. My current house is full of kids, so I do not get to have a dedicated listening/theater room (yet!)

Audio Gear

Amps = Marantz MA500 Monoblocks – (8) amps in total – (6) bridged for the fronts and center speakers. (2) for the rear surrounds.

Preamp = Anthem Statement D2 with ARC room correction upgrade

Front Speakers = Acoustat Spectra 22’s (they are large and make a large front sound stage)

Center speaker = Monitor Audio Gold GS-LCR

Rear Surround = B&W 683 towers – Yes towers as surrounds since the room is so large.

Subs = (2) SVS SB-1000

If there is a obvious upgrade - please let me know!

Jesse

 

[anmpr1]

Below is an image of a review of your amp. If it's working fine I'd be hesitant to get rid of it. A nice one.

 

[Willem]

The only upgrade I can think of is two more identical subs. The room is large so more power where it matters is always welcome and four will be a bit smoother than two.

 

[CDMC]

Howdy,

The system is straight forward home theater system that I also listen to music with. I have a wife and 4 youngish kids. So, with kids and possible wife aggro. I cannot have super cool stuff out where it will get broke and be on display. So, I have my gear in an AV closet that is in a large rack that is out of the way.

I run what I believe is a simple straight forward home theater system. We have the fun parts setup in a large great room / living room. The room is 960 sq ft with vaulted ceilings and a large front wall. (I can post pics if needed). The large front wall is where the 82” TV, front speakers, center, and 1 of the 2 subs reside. The second sub is towards the rear of the room. The surround speakers are B&W 683 towers. I went with tower speakers for the rears because I needed more volume and umph with such a large room. Everything seems to sound great. I am sure ARC room correction has a good part to play in why it sounds so good to my ears. But again, I have the itch it could be better with different amps. I am a regular working dude who loves audio gear. My wife puts up with my large speakers and knows that audio and movies are my release from the real world, but I am sure there is a limit to what she will put up with. My current house is full of kids, so I do not get to have a dedicated listening/theater room (yet!)

Audio Gear

Amps = Marantz MA500 Monoblocks – (8) amps in total – (6) bridged for the fronts and center speakers. (2) for the rear surrounds.

Preamp = Anthem Statement D2 with ARC room correction upgrade

Front Speakers = Acoustat Spectra 22’s (they are large and make a large front sound stage)

Center speaker = Monitor Audio Gold GS-LCR

Rear Surround = B&W 683 towers – Yes towers as surrounds since the room is so large.

Subs = (2) SVS SB-1000

If there is a obvious upgrade - please let me know!

Jesse

What I see is a well thought out and good system in a very large room (9000+ cubic feet). I don't see any benefit in changing amps. Here is what I would do if it were my system:

• Purchase a Umik-1, download REW and learn how to use it for measurements. With this, you can measure decay times and frequency response to establish if there are room issues, such as excess decay times that would benefit from room treatment. As a generally rule, if your room is carpeted, has a good amount of furniture and curtains or drapes, it will have plenty of dampening. Hardwood or tile floors, sparse furniture, and blinds, it will likely benefit from some room treatments.
  
  
• Establish what your maximum listening levels are- With a big room, an issue can be reaching adequate SPL levels. Electrostatic speakers are SPL limited, but it is somewhat offset by the fact their sound level falls of as distance increases at a slower level than dynamic speakers. THX reference level is 105db for the mains and 115db for subwoofers. Note that this is very loud and most people watching movies listen at lower levels, anywhere from 3-10+ db lower. This is offset by the fact that in your room, I would expect average listening levels to be about 3db higher than someone in a smaller room (the same SPL sounds a bit quieter in large room than a smaller room). I would use REW to establish what your maximum peak levels are and if you are running out of SPL capability.
  
  
• Subwoofers- Because of the size of your room, you will get little room gain at the lowest frequencies. As such, your subwoofers are not able to put out more than about 90db at 20hz. The good news is that there is little music and even movies with significant content below 30hz and by that level you should be hitting about 100db output capability. Ideally in a room that size you would be using 4+ 15" or 18" subs. That said, I think you would see significant improvements by adding two more SB1000 subs. You will get additional room smoothing and should pick up at least 6db output capability, as well as lower distortion at your current levels as each subwoofer won't be driven as hard.
  
  
• Main Speakers- Changing these would result in the largest change in your sound. Dynamic speakers have improved in the past 30 years and many can now rival stats in their "transparency", without the downside of limited dynamics, beaming, poor frequency responses, and low efficiency. I was a magnepan user for 25+ years and 6 different models, I have just made the switch to dynamic speakers. I would suggest looking at Revel, Kef, Philharmonic Audio, and the Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower. You may be inclined to B&W as you have them for your rear speakers, but I will caution you that B&W has a very distinct house sound that is bright and not accurate.

Just my two cents, but that is where I would throw my money if I had an itch.

 

[Wongdongfu]

I am off to find a Umik-1 to purchase.

Thank you all again for the great information. I am so happy to have found this community.

Jesse

 

[Willem]

As a follow up, I thought that with your room size even four SB1000 subs maybe be a bit anaemic. Perhaps getting two aditional more powerful ones would be even better. I don't think you will need to worry that in that case they are not all four the same. But by all means, do measure first. I thought it was very revealing in my situation.

 

[Wongdongfu]

Howdy,

I live in Wyoming so howdy is a standard greeting

I have ordered the Umik-1, it should be here sometime next week. I do have a pair of M&K V-125 Sub-woofers that I can and will integrate into the mix this weekend. (just to see what it does sound wise to my ear). Then if I like the sound I will run ARC and let it do its thing. I am excited to play with the Umik-1 and REW.

I do IT for a living so doing nerdy stuff on a computer is right up my alley.

All the help is much apprecaited!

Jesse

 

[Willem]

See here for what the addition of even modest extra subwoofers can do: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/05/musings-measurements-subwoofers-to.html

 

[anmpr1]

I live in Wyoming so howdy is a standard greeting...

I grew up in Wyoming. Cheyenne. A lot of fond childhood memories. As a kid I bought my first record albums at an Albertson grocery store on Pershing Blvd. They were in cardboard boxes. Probably next to the canned peas. Stack 'em high and watch 'em fly. LOL

 

[Willem]

For the benefits of multiple subs and their best location:

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/20...fers-to-improve-bass-the-welti-devantie-html/

Dr. Earl Geddes, "Why Multiple Subs" (2011)

Dr. Earl Geddes, "Setting Up Multiple Subs" (2011)