Distortion due to "brick wall"

[Neccros]

OK this isn't aimed at any one brand of speaker, amp, headphone, etc.

I noticed when listening to a FLAC that's been boosted and compressed to death aka loudness wars, in headphones its still pretty clear and not really distorted but just loud, yet when I heard it through the same DAC attached to an amp and playing through speakers, I can sense a little bit of distortion on certain frequencies and the music plays. Now if I play a slightly less compressed FLAC, it plays fine.

Now my question is, is this distortion a result of the speaker not being able to react quick enough? Or is the amp not quick enough to respond?

Not sure I explained this correctly but I hope it makes enough sense to answer the question. See attached pic of a file in Foobar2000

 

[Doodski]

is this distortion a result of the speaker not being able to react quick enough?

Speakers are lagging 100% of the time distortion figures are sometimes into tens of percent.

is the amp not quick enough to respond?

Your amplifier is more than quick enough for audio purposes and if a class AB it will sometimes go all the way to 200kHz at the cutoff frequency.

 

[Neccros]

Speakers are lagging 100% of the time distortion figures are sometimes into tens of percent.

So IF you wanted to improve the speakers, what part of the speaker could be better to not distort? Or is it purely the source and nothing could be done??

Your amplifier is more than quick enough for audio purposes and if a class AB it will sometimes go all the way to 200kHz at the cutoff frequency.

This was on a Class D amp...

 

[Doodski]

So IF you wanted to improve the speakers, what part of the speaker could be better to not distort? Or is it purely the source and nothing could be done??

I think if one wants to see what performs very well in speakers then just look to successful speaker designers and builders. KEF, TAD, Genelec are 3 names that come to mind and all are different approaches.

This was on a Class D amp...

The class D amp is fast enough it's just that it has a cutoff filter at the outputs to eliminate the square wave from the audio output and that also cuts off the audio @ a lower frequency.

 

[Neccros]

I think if one wants to see what performs very well in speakers then just look to successful speaker designers and builders. KEF, TAD, Genelec are 3 names that come to mind and all are different approaches.

I'm referring to a more "what part of the speaker" in general would lessen the distortion... Like the cabinet, crossover, the terminals, etc.

 

[Doodski]

o IF you wanted to improve the speakers, what part of the speaker could be better to not distort?

I think the complexity of good speakers is obvious in this thread.

KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF LS50 Meta bookshelf coaxial speaker. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me and costs US $1,500 for a pair. The LS50 Meta comes in different colors and I must say, it looks stunning in white: You could sell it as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Doodski]

I'm referring to a more "what part of the speaker" in general would lessen the distortion... Like the cabinet, crossover, the terminals, etc.

All parts of a speaker build are critical. Not sure how terminals fits into it though because if one thinks about it a banana jack is just a spike of metal that fits into a receptacle. It could be anything metal fitting into something. Nothing fancy there.

 

[Neccros]

One thing I get frustrated in this hobby is everyone wants to post graphs, etc. but no one ever explains what I am looking at and how to read it... LOL

 

[Neccros]

All parts of a speaker build are critical. Not sure how terminals fits into it though because if one thinks about it a banana jack is just a spike of metal that fits into a receptacle. It could be anything metal fitting into something. Nothing fancy there.

I just used that as a reference to the parts of a speaker, not meant to be a literal reference

 

[Doodski]

One thing I get frustrated in this hobby is everyone wants to post graphs, etc. but no one ever explains what I am looking at and how to read it... LOL

It's assumed/expected you will know how to read them and if you don't then say that and get some assistance. If we checked with every single person if they understand the graphs we would be all day at making that statement where it is easier to just assume everybody knows what is going on.

 

[Neccros]

It's assumed/expected you will know how to read them and if you don't then say that and get some assistance. If we checked with every single person if they understand the graphs we would be all day at making that statement where it is easier to just assume everybody knows what is going on.

Well no one is born reading frequency response graphs!!!

 

[JSmith]

what I am looking at and how to read it

https://www.sausalitoaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Interpreting-Spinorama-Charts.pdf

JSmith

 

[Doodski]

I just used that as a reference to the parts of a speaker, not meant to be a literal reference

We get all sorts of peeps here visiting ASR. I took you literally... lol.

 

[Neccros]

We get all sorts of peeps here visiting ASR. I took you literally... lol.

Yeah I'm not that well versed on audio technology but do recognize what sounds better vs other things but do a point... I don't feel a $10,000 power does squat but that's me.

 

[Doodski]

I don't feel a $10,000 power does squat but that's me.

Bust out the champagne we sold 1000 units of $10K power conditioners. j/k.

 

[sam_adams]

A speaker is just an electro-mechanical transducer. Its limits are largely due to the materials employed in all the parts of the driver. Imagine, if you will, a speaker with a cone that is infinitely stiff, has no mass and therefore no inertia to overcome, has no electrical resistance in its voice coil and produces no losses due to all the things we know that coils of copper wire do in a magnetic field when stimulated by an electrical impulse. It would be perfect in every way. Since it is perfect, it would have infinite bandwidth and it would transform electrical signals into perfect compression and rarefaction of air so as to produce absolutely perfect sound waves with no distortions whatsoever. Now, imagine this perfect driver reproducing music that is mastered with speakers that have all the flaws that even the best speakers we know have. How do you think that music would sound?

 

[Blumlein 88]

I'm referring to a more "what part of the speaker" in general would lessen the distortion... Like the cabinet, crossover, the terminals, etc.

As someone has said all parts are important. Likely the limit on how good it can be is the quality of the drivers. You then have to put them in a well designed cabinet not to get directional issues, resonances, and other problems. If not an incompetent design the drivers probably determine what level of distortion one gets at various sound levels.

A highly compressed song, assuming you mean dynamic compression, may cause a higher average level of sound which might push a speaker into sounding distorted somewhat. A less compressed song with lower average level might be easier for the speaker to handle with less overall or less noticeable distortion.

 

[No. 5]

Now my question is, is this distortion a result of the speaker not being able to react quick enough? Or is the amp not quick enough to respond?

I have my doubts that it has to do with quickness. Time to do some good old fashioned troubleshooting: with the version that sounds distorted over speakers, does the distortion change with volume? Also, is it possible for you to share a copy of the part of the song/file that's distorting (no need for the whole song, just the part that repeatedly sounds distorted)?

 

[Neccros]

I have my doubts that it has to do with quickness. Time to do some good old fashioned troubleshooting: with the version that sounds distorted over speakers, does the distortion change with volume? Also, is it possible for you to share a copy of the part of the song/file that's distorting (no need for the whole song, just the part that repeatedly sounds distorted)?

No the setup I was listening to was near field so pretty low volume and the distortion was present. Again only on tracks like I pictured above and not lesser compressed files... I will have to figure out how to clip a section out... I dont have Audacity installed and not sure Foobar can clip tracks... will look for a plug in

 

[kemmler3D]

Hmm, given that it's the same DAC it's probably something with the speaker.

Given that you said it's at low volume, it's probably either: something resonating with the housing, port resonance, or the track has too much low bass for the speaker, and so you're getting distortion from either the woofer hitting its frequency limit, or the amp is too small and is running out of juice.

PS welcome to ASR! There is a lot of good discussion, but as you've noticed already, it's a discussion at a high level. Many are actual or former professionals, the rest have been reading frequency graphs for so long, they forgot what it was like before they knew that stuff. It's worth reading some of the background material to get up to speed, believe me, it will probably save you $1000s in the long run.