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Dirac Live Bass Management?

Flak

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Interesting, can you elaborate on what the standalone version for Mac is/does? I currently use the plugin hosted in SoundSource on my Mac. Im happy to help beta test!

It provides a virtual audio card in addition to the plugins... that virtual audio card can be interposed between the source and the physical audiocard/DAC making systemwide correction of all audio from the Mac available if desired.
Also, the calibration process is simpler.
In other words, it offers the same features as the just-released Dirac Live for Windows
 

sanbol

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Does the C658 still have the low sub output issue or is it fixed?

I know they released a software ''fix'' a while back but only increases it by 3dB and still sounds low to people who tried/own it.

If so, then lets hope NAD come out with a C659 this year with a proper fix.
 

sanbol

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Mine has never had any issue. Sub output is fine and always has been ...


That is good to know. many ppl complained about it.

The thing that is worrying me is that it didnt get a really good review here. so I am not sure should I go for it? i need streaming and it has one of the best apps for it , room correction and a sub output.

Basically ticks all the boxes i need and more.

I like the classic industrial plain look of the unit which many don't.

Would you buy it again?

I already have an amp and speakers are on the way.
 

KarVi71

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I have the same experiences as Bluefuzz, never had problems with sub output, and I even have the volume on my sub turned down to about 1/3 of full volume, and theres still plenty of output. The bass with Dirac dialed in, is extremely good I think.

I am very happy with my C658, and would buy one again without hesitation.
 

sanbol

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I found a couple good deals on refurb units but some reviews are scary. people complaining about glitchy app, wifi doesn't
I have the same experiences as Bluefuzz, never had problems with sub output, and I even have the volume on my sub turned down to about 1/3 of full volume, and theres still plenty of output. The bass with Dirac dialed in, is extremely good I think.

I am very happy with my C658, and would buy one again without hesitation.

The thing we can't deny is that it didn't do really well in measurements here. Isn't that a bit concering? won',t it cause audible distortion when we listen loud ?
 

KarVi71

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I'm not happy that it measures so badly. NAD should have done better.
But the numbers, although bad, are good enough that for many peoble in their normal listening environments, they wont be able to hear the distortion.

In my listening setup, I dont notice any distortion, the sound is clear as water from a fountain. Its a delight listening to music from it.

This streamer / preamp in cooperation with Dirac has made it possible to hear details on my stereo that I could only hear via headphones before.
It is an extremely revealing but still relaxed sounding setup.

I guess, if I had the chance to make an A/B comparison to a better performing dac, I might be able to hear a difference. But in day to day use, it simply sounds very very good (to me).

And all my (Hifi interested) friends that have listened to it have been satisfied and some even very impressed with its sound. A couple of them are even saving up for buying one after hearing it here.

Edit:
My C658 has allways been hooked up to cabled network, so I cant comment to Wifi issues. Bluetooth has been flawless for me, when I have used it.
 
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sanbol

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I'm not happy that it measures so badly. NAD should have done better.
But the numbers, allthough bad, are good enough that for many peoble in their normal listening environments, they wont be able to hear the distortion.

In my listening setup, I dont notice any distortion, the sound is clear as water from a fountain. Its a delight listening to music from it.

This streamer / preamp in cooperation with Dirac has made it possible to hear details on my stereo that I could only hear via headphones before.
It is an extremely revealing but still relaxed sounding setup.

I guess, if I had the chance to make an A/B comparison to a better performing dac, I might be able to hear a difference. But in day to day use, it simply sounds very very good (to me).

And all my (Hifi interested) friends that have listened to it have been satisfied and some even very impressed with its sound. A couple of them are even saving up for buying one after hearing it here.
Thanks for that

I found a couple of refurb units like 400$ off retail so might go for it. This is my first DAC ever.
 

bluefuzz

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The thing that is worrying me is that it didnt get a really good review here.
Remember, Amir's reviews are exclusively about the pure audio engineering quality, i.e. SINAD and little else. As far as I remember it was a refurb unit and he had problems with the digital connections. It's therefore difficult to know what conclusions to draw from his review. Was it a representative example? Was it broken? We simply don't know. I've certainly never had any problems with the digital inputs (or anything else) and I use them every day. Assuming Amir's SINAD measurement is accurate (and representative) it's still more than fine for actual human hearing. Sound quality is excellent, especially with Dirac, and, in use, I have found the C658 essentially flawless.
Would you buy it again?
The only real competitor to the C658 is the MiniDSP SHD. And if you need the PEQ filters then it would probably be preferable. But the C658 has the better UI - BluOS is infinitely preferable to the buggy Volumio – and the Dirac implementation is more flexible. So yes, I'd buy it again.

My only serious criticism of the C658 is the puzzling lack of a USB input and I really would prefer not to support any device sporting the MQA logo. But NAD probably can't alone be criticised for jumping on that bandwagon ...
 

oursmagenta

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Hi @txbdan and @oursmagenta
Bass Control for the Dirac Processor isn't available yet as the standalone version of Dirac Live for Mac got priority and we're still working on it.
There is a possibility of experimenting with Bass Control but it's rather "convoluted" (pun intended :) )
if interested nonetheless please contact us at https://helpdesk.dirac.se

Thanks for your interest in Bass Control!

Just wanted to give some feedbacks from this on-going experience (Dirac Live with Bass Management on Windows 10).

It's not as straight-forward to setup as with the release version (the 1.4 Dirac Live Standalone Processor), but hey that works ! And even for a beta/pre-beta that is pretty good (I'm a physics-modeling/software engineer and I've seen far worse beta-type software quality).

The final product will give us (user of the pc/mac platform) a built-in software (forget, Ekio, Virtual Cable, etc ...) that deal with the bass seamlessly.
To be honest, If you don't want to use an AVR in the mix (that will deal with sub(s) crossovers) it is hard to do it without a lot of struggles as digital crossovers on Windows 10 is pretty painful.

I hope I don't sound like a Dirac Live fanboy though ...
 

freedomgli

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I found a couple good deals on refurb units but some reviews are scary. people complaining about glitchy app, wifi doesn't
Given the complexity and the problems that some people had and conintue to have with NAD quality issues, I would not buy a "refurbished" C658. Nobody refurbishes these devices. Anyone selling a "refurbished" unit is just selling a used item, and one that probably has problems. "Refurbished" is a hifi industry scam unless you're buying a "refurbished" item from a tiny boutique brand that does all their own work in-house and guarantees it. Most big manufacturers like NAD just outsource all warranty problems to service centers that are poorly equipped to actually fix problems. These kinds of modern hifi devices like the C658 are mostly disposable items.
 

Aerith Gainsborough

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Hi @txbdan and @oursmagenta
Bass Control for the Dirac Processor isn't available yet as the standalone version of Dirac Live for Mac got priority and we're still working on it.
I use the standalone for windows for stereo music since I discovered it last update and it is fantastic!
So, understandable that you guys prioritize it.
 

phoenixdogfan

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If I'm understanding this correctly, Dirac Live stand alone Bass Management for PC will not only incorporate room correction for bass, but also be a complete easy to use software crossover for mains/subs complete with high/low pass implementation? Meaning no further need for things like miniDSP 2x 4 HD if you have a multi channel usb dac? Is this correct? If it is, I can hardly wait. I hope they get on it soon. The sooner, the better.
 

Music1969

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Correct. Works for me!

Hi Kal, can you clarify everything that works for you (in terms of Dirac)?

I thought "complete easy to use software crossover for mains/subs complete with high/low pass implementation" is something that's still coming?

But you already have this working? Or you have something else working?
 

Pultzar

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I will say that DLBC is incredible for my system. It has worked wonders at removing peaks and valleys in the response. I could always EQ down a peak but never fix a valley on my own...
 

Kal Rubinson

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Hi Kal, can you clarify everything that works for you (in terms of Dirac)?
I thought "complete easy to use software crossover for mains/subs complete with high/low pass implementation" is something that's still coming?
But you already have this working? Or you have something else working?
I will say that DLBC is incredible for my system. It has worked wonders at removing peaks and valleys in the response. I could always EQ down a peak but never fix a valley on my own...
DLBC is working but I am not using it because I have no subs at the moment. There are on-going issues regarding the current implementation of DLBC under certain conditions and DL is aware of them.
 

stevenswall

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I thought "complete easy to use software crossover for mains/subs complete with high/low pass implementation" is something that's still coming?

This seems to be framed a bit different than I was expecting... I thought Dirac Live Bass Control was going to stop the archaic "let's put all the bass in this woofer, and only play 81hz and up in these massive speakers that could correct the bass response in the listening area, but we'd rather just cripple them."

I can see the advantage of doing a high pass to take a load off of small speakers, but hope there is an option for primarily focusing on correcting bass and allowing speakers to play whatever they can if it leads to a good result in the listening position.
 

Music1969

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This seems to be framed a bit different than I was expecting... I thought Dirac Live Bass Control was going to stop the archaic "let's put all the bass in this woofer, and only play 81hz and up in these massive speakers that could correct the bass response in the listening area, but we'd rather just cripple them."

I can see the advantage of doing a high pass to take a load off of small speakers, but hope there is an option for primarily focusing on correcting bass and allowing speakers to play whatever they can if it leads to a good result in the listening position.

Bass Control is basically individual subwoofer correction.

So instead of using multi subs and trying to get a smooth overall average but individual subs may still have big dips/peaks, it tries to get both a smooth overall average AND optimal individual performance too (smaller dips/peaks for individual subs).

And fullrange speakers can have low end treated like subs in the same regard too.

I think lol

Explained by Dirac Product Manager in this video:
 

TimoJ

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And fullrange speakers can have low end treated like subs in the same regard too.
That feature is not currently implemented.
DLBC's bass cancellation problem is pretty bad in certain situations. For example 2ch music with Auro upmixer the end result is pretty sad to listen and I much prefer to use just regular Dirac with AVP's build-in bass management.
 
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