Dirac Experts - Assistance Needed

[vicenzo_del_paris]

Just so we’re on the same page. In order to do the calibration correct with the correct routing, I should:

1) Delete the data from all of my presets.
2) Click on profile 1 on the left
3) Have routing set to input 1 Dirac 1 and input 2 Dirac 2.
4) Launch Dirac from the control panel.
5) Run calibration for stereo
6) Set target curve and export results to slot 1

I plan to make two calibrations, another attempt at a full range cal, and a separate stereo cal only correcting 0-350 or 0-500hz.

Yes!
In fact you can do only one calibration.
Make sure slot 1 and 2 have correct routing.
Start dirac calibration.
Save full range filters on slot 1.
Save 0-500 filters on slot 2.
That is all.

2 calibrations are only needed if you change any parameter such the mic angle or position.
Otherwise, only 1 is needed.
You can then save your dirac project and with snapshots for each target curve or range that you can reapply later on any slots.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Yes!
In fact you can do only one calibration.
Make sure slot 1 and 2 have correct routing.
Start dirac calibration.
Save full range filters on slot 1.
Save 0-500 filters on slot 2.
That all.

2 calibrations are only needed if you change any parameter such the mic angle or position.
Otherwise, only 1 is needed.
You can then save your dirac project and with snapshots for each target curve or range that you can reapply later on any slots.

Ahh good point, I didn’t think about using the same project and just limiting the target curve and re-saving/exporting.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Cleared my presets and started over. Instead of using the couch and various square objects to change the microphone height I used a tripod placed about two feet forward from the MLP. The mic position change and mounting seems to have made a difference in the image height issue, which was driving me nuts. The off center image improved, but didn't go away, so I'm thinking it may be related to the varying surfaces in my room?

This is what we're workin with:

Thoughts?

 

[dougi]

Well, you seem to have a HF curtain on DIRAC 2 but not on DIRAC 1. The only time I have had imaging problems with DIRAC was due to mic interface settings resulting in large channel delay differences. As earlier in the thread, that can be resolved by having a small buffer and lower (44.1kHz) sample rate. You never seemed to have that problem going by your initial post though (i.e. delays were similar). Post the impulse response plots as well may (or may not) be informative.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Well, you seem to have a HF curtain on DIRAC 2 but not on DIRAC 1. The only time I have had imaging problems with DIRAC was due to mic interface settings resulting in large channel delay differences. As earlier in the thread, that can be resolved by having a small buffer and lower (44.1kHz) sample rate. You never seemed to have that problem going by your initial post though (i.e. delays were similar). Post the impulse response plots as well may (or may not) be informative.

Sorry, I took a screenshot of the wrong preset, I exported the same config to slot 2 but with the curtain cutoff @ 2khz so that I could see what effect that had. On slot 1 the curtain goes to 20khz for both channels. Here are the correct screenshots:

Impulse

 

[dougi]

That seems fine! Strange that it calls them DIRAC 1 and DIRAC 2 though. By default the channels havealways been called left and right for me (both for a MiniDSP Flex and NAD C3050LE). I would have turned the "corrected" on for the FR plots though to see what it estimated it was correcting to.

There certainly seems to be a strong short reflection on the DIRAC 2 channel though it doesn't do much with. What is that? The near wall or closer?

 

[Dougey_Jones]

That seems fine! Strange that it calls them DIRAC 1 and DIRAC 2 though. By default the channels havealways been called left and right for me (both for a MiniDSP Flex and NAD C3050LE). I would have turned the "corrected" on for the FR plots though to see what it estimated it was correcting to.

There certainly seems to be a strong short reflection on the DIRAC 2 channel though it doesn't do much with. What is that? The near wall or closer?

Dirac 2 should be the right channel, which is the brick wall. The left channel has the 8' sliding glass doors with some pretty weak curtains. But weak curtains are better than no curtains.

 

[deercreekaudio]

It seems clear the process was faulty, especially the fact that you didn’t use the right routing.
Each preset are independent, routing/crossover/peq etc + dirac adjustments.
If you want to compare only different Dirac calibrations then the same pre-Dirac settings need to be uploaded in all presets.
And don’t change anything on the presets after each dedicated calibration (unless you know what you’re doing).

Mic calibration file would not have such an impact, it’s mostly on highs and quite subtile.
Room and speaker placements are fine, they would not impact imaging that much.
Current preset 1 is mono, so of course center is strong, with or without dirac applied.
Current preset 2 use a stereo feed, but probably with the wrong dirac calibration, or the one done with preset 1, so messy FR adjustment, timing off, etc.

Completing this verification process will properly configure your system and provide the basis to successfully apply Dirac Live room correction to your audio system: https://deercreekaudio.com/tech-blog/f/using-key-measurements-to-verify-basic-system-setup

 

[Anthony LoFi]

Hi Mr Jones
How are you going with your Dirac implementation?
Sometimes its seems really confusing with all the information regarding the preliminary settings before you even get to Dirac.
Just remember that Dirac isnt a magic cure for room eq, just one tool of many to help especially for the newbie (like me).

I have a question: when your are in Dirac measurement level calibration screen, we test the appropriate gain levels of the microphone and master volume on each left and right speaker.
Have you noticed that the left pink noise "tone" is different from the right?
Either left or right test tones do not sound exactly the same? identical?
Example in my case is the left speaker has of a lower more pronounced 1khz tone than the right which seems to be even and seems "brighter" than the left. I swapped left speaker for right and the effect stayed on the left so have discounted a faulty speaker.
I then confirmed this with an REW measurement and the Dirac two test tones are different with one having more HF content.
I have contacted Dirac and they say its something in the SHD as this produces the Dirac test tone file.
I have raised a ticket with miniDSP and am waiting on a reply.
Just interested if others have noticed this.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

I posted this elsewhere, but didn't get an answer so wanted to know if anybody in this thread knows:

"I recently sold my RZ50 and the person that I sold it to is asking me if they need my Dirac Live account password in order to utilize Dirac.. I think with the RZ50, Dirac is attached to the hardware and serial number, shouldn't they just be able to create a new Dirac Live account and when they launch the application it will authenticate the license over their home network?"

 

[Bugal1998]

Post-calibration off-center behavior is a known Dirac issue. You can raise a ticket to their tech support and they will probably solve it. They will try to tell you your MLP is too close to the rear wall, etc. but it's due to timing mis-match between the source clock and the playback clock. Some MiniDSP units introduce too much delay for Dirac to cope with.

This!

Had it multiple times now with the NAD implementation.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Troubleshooting: Off-Center or Biased Imaging - Dirac Live Support - Confluence

confluence.dirac.services

the one before last starting with "buffer size..." is the most common cause AFAIK.

Never heard about the problem. But I knew that the first measurement (the sweet spot) is extremely important for the end result by experience. When I first ventured into Dirac I didn't care as much and just eye-balled the position. Results were good but when I started aligning the spot to the exact same my results could be repeatable when it wasn't possible before with just eye-balling it.

My advice: mark the spots you want to measure at beforehand with a piece of chalk on the floor and the preset heights on the tripod.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Hi Mr Jones
How are you going with your Dirac implementation?
Sometimes its seems really confusing with all the information regarding the preliminary settings before you even get to Dirac.
Just remember that Dirac isnt a magic cure for room eq, just one tool of many to help especially for the newbie (like me).

I have a question: when your are in Dirac measurement level calibration screen, we test the appropriate gain levels of the microphone and master volume on each left and right speaker.
Have you noticed that the left pink noise "tone" is different from the right?
Either left or right test tones do not sound exactly the same? identical?
Example in my case is the left speaker has of a lower more pronounced 1khz tone than the right which seems to be even and seems "brighter" than the left. I swapped left speaker for right and the effect stayed on the left so have discounted a faulty speaker.
I then confirmed this with an REW measurement and the Dirac two test tones are different with one having more HF content.
I have contacted Dirac and they say its something in the SHD as this produces the Dirac test tone file.
I have raised a ticket with miniDSP and am waiting on a reply.
Just interested if others have noticed this.

Have you tried swapping inputs on your amplifier to rule that out? -Swapping (input) cables? If you don't have a symmetrical / identical room on each side your frequency response will not be the same for each side.

 

[Anthony LoFi]

Have you tried swapping inputs on your amplifier to rule that out? -Swapping (input) cables? If you don't have a symmetrical / identical room on each side your frequency response will not be the same for each side.

Yes one of the first things I did. I actually recorded by microphone (200mm from the cone center) both channels and analyised them as a wav file.
Both waveforms where slightly different so I recorded the same channels directly out of the SHD line out and they appear to have the same difference.
Both recordings sound different when playing back on headphones.
Really strange. I dont use Dirac as it messes with the sound stage in my system.

PS. I know this is dumb but I also swapped the interconnects just in case the cables where the culprit. They werent.

 

[holdingpants01]

I had this problem with previous Dirac version which didn't have super clear instructions where to put the microphone during measurements, so I was doing left - right measurements the other way around. When I tried it the opposite the problem went away. Does it allow just one measurement in the middle position to create filters? For 20-500Hz filtering that should be enough anyway

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I had this problem with previous Dirac version which didn't have super clear instructions where to put the microphone during measurements, so I was doing left - right measurements the other way around. When I tried it the opposite the problem went away. Does it allow just one measurement in the middle position to create filters? For 20-500Hz filtering that should be enough anyway

Yes, you can just do the center one and move on.