Denon PMA-600NE Integrated Amplifier Review

[Eldus]

I am afraid the average ASR reader doesn't need anything working another 30 years.

Hey I'm 25.

 

[Chrispy]

If it doesn’t make sense, I suggest you look at the graphs in Amir’s review and pay attention to the comments about bit depth.

Also, Amir had posted several tutorials about understanding audio measurements which are extremely helpful.

Hopefully, that should clear up anything you are confused about, but if that doesn’t help, please post specific areas of confusion in the thread and I am sure multiple forum members will offer help.

So you play a higher res file than a redbook cd and it sounds audibly worse than the cd?

 

[AnalogSteph]

Under the hood, I suspect this 'new' Denon is the same ageing amplifier found in the PMA520, and no doubt other products I don't know about, with a cheap DAC of similar vintage shoehorned in.

Roughly this. (BT isn't expensive these days, and DAC wise I'd expect a PCM5100A or similar.) The specs mirror those of a PMA-500AE from over 15 years ago, and in fact the 20-year-old PMA-495R as well. Not sure whether they're running their Darlingtons that much underbiased or what. In any case it's an entry-level integrated amp with some modern amenities added.

 

[DanielT]

Just out of curiosity, what is this : ADVANCED High Current Single Push -Pull Circuit that Denon says that the PMA-600NE has?

Advanced what? Push-Pull maybe that it is class AB amp but single what?

 

[Hammeredklavier]

This could have been a winner because it has all the features and option for the price range and looks nice too but it's a no-go now.

I'm not sure I follow. If the amplifier is transparent - which I would think it would be - what does it matter if other amplifiers have better measurements?

If 0.1% THD is inaudible, an amp with 0.01% THD will sound exactly the same as an amp with 0.001% or 0.00001% or 0.000000000001%!

I don't want to berate the technical achievement of designing and building amplifiers with these amazing measurements, but once you've pushed any noise, distortion and non-linearities below the threshold of audibility, it makes sense to concentrate on other things - feature set, reliability, serviceability, value, build quality, aesthetics and so on.

 

[Doodski]

Just out of curiosity, what is this : ADVANCED High Current Single Push -Pull Circuit that Denon says that the PMA-600NE has?

Advanced what? Push-Pull maybe that it is class AB amp but single what?


View attachment 326140

I did not find a service manual for it but the flyer offers some blurbs on the amp stuff.

 

[Hammeredklavier]

Roughly this. (BT isn't expensive these days, and DAC wise I'd expect a PCM5100A or similar.) The specs mirror those of a PMA-500AE from over 15 years ago, and in fact the 20-year-old PMA-495R as well. Not sure whether they're running their Darlingtons that much underbiased or what. In any case it's an entry-level integrated amp with some modern amenities added.

Yeah I just happened to notice that it looked a lot like the PMA520 I've had in one of my systems for years. I like the amp a lot to be honest, and got it new for £135. Which is why I tend to think the amp reviewed here is a bit on the expensive side - it's the same thing only with a cheapo DAC and Bluetooth.

 

[pablolie]

...

i would rather this unit lose phono and the digital section and tone controls and.... yeah you get the idea... do a little but do it better, dont try to do lots of things in a shit manner
...

Totally agree. Integrated amps that waste extra cost on phono or tone controls are immediately disqualified for my use. DAC only if done well.

 

[Doodski]

Hi-Fi Engine specs and details:

Denon specs include:

 

[restorer-john]

So the reviewed model appears to be an ageing budget integrated, refreshed by adding DAC and Bluetooth features.

The major companies like Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Rotel etc have been recycling their amplifier designs for the last 30 years. Nothing wrong with that, but it hardly advance the state of amplifier art. The advances have been with control and systemwide protection/monitoring, not with actual performance.

The chart topping things here on ASR are generally just single function little boxes. Basically it's chopping up an integrated such as this into all its building blocks and selling them separately at a greatly inflated price. Sure, people get a little flexibility, but they pay a stupid amount of money, have a sea of wall-warts and cables, lose all the functionality of a connected unit and end up with a pile of disparate building blocks to look at.

Give me a competent, high powered, high performance integrated anytime- they are a work of art to behold when done well.

 

[Hammeredklavier]

Totally agree. Integrated amps that waste extra cost on phono or tone controls are immediately disqualified for my use. DAC only if done well.

The tone controls are really handy. My pma520 is driving Vienna Acoustics Haydns, and the bass needs a bit of attenuation to stop them booming. Otherwise you're down to sticking socks in the reflex port!

 

[DanielT]

I did not find a service manual for it but the flyer offers some blurbs on the amp stuff.
View attachment 326142

It's probably mostly mumbo jumbo marketing talk.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Give me a competent, high powered, high performance integrated anytime- they are a work of art to behold when done well.

In the past I very much preferred to at least divorce the control center/preamp from the power amp. I think that makes sense more than ever. Various ways of delivering music change more often. A single box for everything except power still seems a good idea, and then you have your power amp.

Now I'd like to ask, is there anyone with current gear making a high performance integrated that you would call a work of art or at least done well? The only ones I can think of cost even more than a couple of good separates.

 

[gsp1971]

Give me a competent, high powered, high performance integrated anytime- they are a work of art to behold when done well.

Couldn't agree more. Have my eye on NAD C399, hoping it will appear on the ASR bench one of these days. The reviewed Denon PMA-600NE is unfortunately worth nothing more than student dorm room material, If that. Even the DAC is a disaster.

 

[Doodski]

It's probably mostly mumbo jumbo marketing talk.

The way it is explained it could be anything. There is no firm mention of any topology or design layout. Just gobbledygook.

 

[restorer-john]

Now I'd like to ask, is there anyone with current gear making a high performance integrated that you would call a work of art or at least done well? The only ones I can think of cost even more than a couple of good separates.

I can't think of a current one off hand. But the 'statement' integrated amplifiers have always been very expensive.

I'd pick an Accuphase. Consider Amir tested just one, many years back and it still sits well-placed on his leaderboard.

 

[Sokel]

In the past I very much preferred to at least divorce the control center/preamp from the power amp. I think that makes sense more than ever. Various ways of delivering music change more often. A single box for everything except power still seems a good idea, and then you have your power amp.

Now I'd like to ask, is there anyone with current gear making a high performance integrated that you would call a work of art or at least done well? The only ones I can think of cost even more than a couple of good separates.

My pre-previous ASR was pretty decent.Not cheap though.
These days a NAD M66 with it's accompanying power amp is what I would think as a really good rig.

 

[Hammeredklavier]

The major companies like Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Rotel etc have been recycling their amplifier designs for the last 30 years. Nothing wrong with that, but it hardly advance the state of amplifier art. The advances have been with control and systemwide protection/monitoring, not with actual performance.

Quite agree. Although as I said earlier, once you've pushed any artefacts and deviations below the threshold of audibility, why go further? It's very impressive to make an amp with 140 dB of dynamic range, but what do you want it for? Similarly, 0.00001% THD is an impressive figure, but even 1% isn't the end of the world and 0.1% is normally transparent.

I suppose that's actually what's happening in the mainstream with these new Class D amps. The specs are unremarkable in terms of SINAD but the efficiency is staggering!

 

[pma]

Boulder 865 integrated

Boulder 865 integrated amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I examined the Boulder 865's measured behavior using mainly Stereophile's loaner sample of the top-of-the-line Audio Precision SYS2722 system (see the January 2008 "As We See It" and www.ap.com); for some tests, I also used my vintage Audio Precision System One Dual Domain.

www.stereophile.com

 

[usersky]

It looks like Denon would be a good casing manufacturer for Topping. Sad destiny.