Use internal DAC of Denon PMA 600NE

[SumitDas76]

Hi. I have a pair of Debut Reference connected to Denon PMA 600NE integrated amp. Currently I am playing FLAC/WAV songs in an external SSD Hard drive by connecting the drive to the USB 3.0 port in my TV and the TV is connected to the Denon with an Optical cable. I would like to know which DAC is being utilized in this scenario, 1) the DAC in the TV or, 2) the internal DAC in the Denon?

 

[SuicideSquid]

Denon. Your TV may be converting the FLACs to uncompressed PCM but that's all in the digital domain. The optical cable sends digital PCM data to your Denon which is converting from digital to analog.

Any time you're connecting multiple devices together using digital interfaces (HDMI, USB, SPDIF, Toslink), it's the last device in the digital chain that will be converting the digital signal to analog. So USB Drive > digital connection > TV > digital connection > Denon > conversion to analog > amplification.

 

[SumitDas76]

Thank you for explaining this so clearly. Could you also provide your suggestion on whether my Denon amplifier is a good match for the Debut Reference speakers? The reason I ask is because I previously owned the Debut B6.2 speakers and found their sound to be lively and wonderful in "Source Direct" mode. The sound projected quite high and sideways as well. I assumed that the Debut Reference speakers would sound even better with the Denon amplifier, so I purchased a pair. However, I found that the Debut Reference speakers sounded muted and dull with the Denon. The sound is dead locked in the center and does not project upward or sideways. One day, while experimenting, I turned off "Source Direct" mode and adjusted the treble to almost 5 o'clock and the bass to 1 o'clock, which improved the sound quality somewhat but the sound stage did not improve. The sound still does not match the Debut B6.2 speakers. Can you suggest anything to improve the sound quality, please?

 

[Zek]

Can you suggest anything to improve the sound quality, please?

Change your speakers and adjust the speaker position in the room.

 

[Overseas]

Had the pma 600 ne, listened to it with 3 different pairs of floorstanders. My advise: sell it, replace it.

 

[SumitDas76]

Had the pma 600 ne, listened to it with 3 different pairs of floorstanders. My advise: sell it, replace it.

That' s the plan. I think I'll probably buy the Cambridge CXA81

 

[Overseas]

Cxa81 probably a good, even very good amp.
I listen to Yamaha AS1100, sensational.

 

[LTig]

That' s the plan. I think I'll probably buy the Cambridge CXA81

That makes no sense. Better go back to your old speakers.

 

[Hollywood_Bob]

You should be advised that there are more opinions than posts on this forum.

 

[SumitDas76]

That makes no sense. Better go back to your old speakers.

I'm considering purchasing the B6.2s again, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something since the Reference speakers are nearly twice as expensive. Currently, I'm in the process of constructing a "music listening room" by expanding a portion of my house and installing a significant amount of sound-absorbing materials on the walls, ceiling, and floor. I'm hoping that once this is completed, within the next two months, the Reference speakers will sound better in the new environment. If they do not, my next steps will be to sell the Denon and purchase the CXA81. If the Reference speakers still don't perform as expected, I will sell them and consider buying the Klipsch RP-600 M II instead. These are just rough plans for now. If construction costs exceed the budget and the Reference speakers don't sound good, I may just buy the B6.2s again for the time being.

 

[SuicideSquid]

I'm considering purchasing the B6.2s again, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something since the Reference speakers are nearly twice as expensive. Currently, I'm in the process of constructing a "music listening room" by expanding a portion of my house and installing a significant amount of sound-absorbing materials on the walls, ceiling, and floor. I'm hoping that once this is completed, within the next two months, the Reference speakers will sound better in the new environment. If they do not, my next steps will be to sell the Denon and purchase the CXA81. If the Reference speakers still don't perform as expected, I will sell them and consider buying the Klipsch RP-600 M II instead. These are just rough plans for now. If construction costs exceed the budget and the Reference speakers don't sound good, I may just buy the B6.2s again for the time being.

I would be surprised if you could hear any difference at all on those speakers between the Denon and Cambridge amplifiers. If you can, the difference would be very small. The difference in moving from an $800 70wpc amplifier to an $1800 80wpc integrated amplifier assuming there's nothing broken about the design is negligible. The difference in moving from $800 to $1800 speakers can be dramatic.

If you really want to replace the Denon and only need digital inputs, consider the audiophonics DAC/Amp that was recently reviewed by Amir - it is a better DAC and a more powerful amplifier than either the Denon or the Cambridge.

Another option to consider if your total budget is in the $2500 range is to spend $300-$600 on a good DAC/preamp by Topping or SMSL, and spend the remainder of your budget on active speakers by JBL, Neumann, or Genelec. You are virtually guaranteed to get better performance out of a pair of Neumann KH120 speakers and a Topping E70, for example, than from any integrated amp/passive speaker combo at that price range.

 

[SumitDas76]

Hi @SuicideSquid - I have decided to go ahead with the Topping E-50 and see how it impacts the sound quality. Needless to say, I'll connect it to the AUX in of my Denon.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hi @SuicideSquid - I have decided to go ahead with the Topping E-50 and see how it impacts the sound quality. Needless to say, I'll connect it to the AUX in of my Denon.

There will be no impact on SQ provided you do a proper controlled test (level matched and double blind).

 

[Overseas]

How can one decide there is no difference using E50 vs pma 600 ne, as long as the latter was not measured by ASR?

Furthermore, subjectivists are accused of biased opinions, but is it OK to tell someone 'go and test BUT there will be NO difference'?!

 

[SuicideSquid]

How can one decide there is no difference using E50 vs pma 600 ne, as long as the latter was not measured by ASR?

Furthermore, subjectivists are accused of biased opinions, but is it OK to tell someone 'go and test BUT there will be NO difference'?!

It's reasonable to infer from Denon's track record that it's DAC/Preamp will be transparent - almost all DAC/preamps are transparent unless they have some kind of fundamental engineering defect, which Denon products typically do not have. If the PMA600ne is transparent and the e50 is transparent then in a controlled test you won't be able to hear a difference.

 

[Overseas]

Glad to meet the new subjectivist type of objectivist, based on 'inferences', 'if' s' and probabilities, not measurements and testing.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Glad to meet the new subjectivist type of objectivist, based on 'inferences', 'if' s' and probabilities, not measurements and testing.

Don't be ridiculous. It is not possible to test every piece of equipment in every scenario. We all draw inferences about things all the time. It is the only way to function in the world. The question is whether these inferences are reasonable.

Given the similarities of this particular Denon receiver to many other Denon receivers, and given that the overwhelming majority of preamps and dacs are transparent, it is reasonable to expect that you won't be able to hear a difference between this particular Denon integrated and this particular Topping.

Am I giving you an absolute guarantee? Am I saying it definitely will? No. I'm saying that's the likely outcome and if you think you hear differences between these devices it's probably psychoacoustics. If you have a problem with that, well, buy a PMA600 and send it to Amir for testing. If the DAC isn't audibly transparent, that will be surprising, but it isn't impossible - just unlikely.

 

[ReDFoX]

Glad to meet the new subjectivist type of objectivist, based on 'inferences', 'if' s' and probabilities, not measurements and testing.

What's the point of being "100% objectivist"? Audio is a mixture of both types. What's the point of 80-90+ SINAD, under typical listening conditions, other than an indicator of a good engineered device? People should not look at graphs if they don't know what we can and can't hear, otherwise it will be (and it is already) a race towards a better measuring device, which is pointless (IMHO)

 

[voodooless]

These speakers seems to measure fairly close to each other:

ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the ELAC Debut 2.0 B6.2 bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased by a member new and sent to me for testing. It costs US $245 from Amazon including free shipping. The Debut 2.0 has a decent look: It comes with an external grill that I did not...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased new and drop shipped to me for testing. The DBR-62 costs US $600 a pair from multiple sources/dealers. The DBR-62 comes in black and walnut finish or the distressed Oak and...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The non-reference is clearly a bit too bright, and Amir mentioned this in his review. It also has a bit more energy in the upper base. Overall the reference should be the better speaker.

As for using the TV as a player, depending on the TV model there may be some caveats: some TVs have a particularly poor spdif output, some adding noise, distortion and very poor sample rate conversion.

Money would have been better spend on a streamer than a DAC, I think.

 

[SumitDas76]

I had the B6.2 for a year before purchasing the DBR62. Certain songs/music pieces played with the B6.2 used to go high (at times it seemed that the sound was coming off the ceiling) and sideways, basically sound more 3D. With the DBR62, the sound is boringly always dead in the center. The bass is way deeper in the DBR62. I'm so unhappy with the DBR62. I thought that a higher costing product from ELAC would sound better, but now I wish I could go back to the B6.2s and juts buy a sub instead.