Denon DRA-800H Review (Stereo Receiver)

[Nonick]

If that's the case, all you had to do was to turn the volume up by a few dB and your impression would have changed. I understand you said you wanted to like the Yamaha so you were not biased that way, but you would still be under the influence of other factors unless you did follow a tightly controlled protocol.

The importance of THD at below 1 W is valid but one also has to consider the noise floor in most rooms the actual THD level and spl you are getting under that specific condition. Another issue I have is that people often refer to the tests by that site, but if you look carefully, their results look very different compared to ASR's, Audioholics, and others such as hometheaterhifi.com's. I am really skeptical with their methodology and the test gear they use. Just compare the graphs you posted and the one Amir did on the R-N803 and you'll know what I am talking about.

Just curious, have you tried some of those listening test such as Klippel's and see how you could consistently tell the difference between 0.1% THD or even 1% THD? In this case, even going by that Polish site's graphs, the difference in THD+N between the two at 0.1 W is only 0.2%, and at that level, it could have been mostly noise too depending on again, their test gear and procedures use.

Distortion Listening Test

Ran into this interesting listening test by Klippel with regards to how much distortion you can hear. This is the link: http://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/lt/ Just casually wanting to see the test, I went with the defaults and for some reason, the levels were exceptionally low. I had to set...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I did turn the volume up (don't assume it wasnt tested on all volume levels). Situation was the same. Yamaha was "loud" but sound impression remained the same: distant treble (though nice imaging), emphasized bass. Went loud with Marantz - got the clarity and balanced bass/mids/highs.
THD+N doesnt have to be decisive factor (since the difference is really small).As for the Klippel test, with noisy room and headphones, reached -18dB.
Perhaps Yamaha's AB class Sunken transistor aren't great regarding powering impedance speakers like JBL Stage A180.

 

[peng]

I'm surprised that the Denon DRA-800H in you audition sounds better than the Yamaha R-N803D considering that the latter performed definitely better in Amir's tests. I guess it means that often subjective preferences prevail on objective measurements.

Me too, but not really because it is his subjective review after all, he said so himself.

I got curious about what other reviewers said about those receivers, and wonder if Nonick had read some of them prior to his auditioning sessions?

A quick search found the following:

https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/review-yamaha-r-n803-network-stereo-receiver.5720/:

By the way, it was reviewed by Matthew (ASR memeber)

.....The Yamaha amplifier has a very clean and neutral presentation. Some might even call it warm, especially if they are used to listening to some of the new Class D amplifiers around...
......The Yamaha R-N803 Network receiver is supremely neutral in tonal balance. What you get with the Yamaha is an all in one audiophile package.

SoundStage! Simplifi | SoundStageSimplifi.com - Yamaha R-N803 Network Stereo Receiver

....Comparing the Yamaha’s built-in digital-to-analog conversion with that of a Pioneer BDP-88FD universal BD player, I heard little difference in sound quality -- not a surprise, as both use an ESS Sabre DAC. In “Lady Day,” from Charles Lloyd’s The Water Is Wide (CD, ECM 1734), Brad Mehldau’s piano had a fluid, room-filling quality that contrasted nicely with Lloyd’s crisp tenor-sax leads and Billy Higgins’s brushed snare drum and cymbals. I expect to hear warm, full sound from this CD, and the Yamaha delivered it....

....The R-N803 was also up to the task of delivering this track’s dynamics: the bass synth had a deep, powerful envelope, and the rim shots on snare were crisp and resonant. Those qualities remained in evidence when I cranked up the volume, the Yamaha retaining its full, rich tone....

.....the Yamaha’s superior delivery of the ambience and intricate layering of instruments in this track made it the more compelling option...

....While the Yamaha’s sound struck me as being on the warm side, it didn’t lack detail....

Now the NR1200

Marantz NR 1200 Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

The Marantz NR1200 is a useful, feature-laden 2 channel receiver that is designed for music streaming as well as video integration.

hometheaterhifi.com

..I found the reproduction very crisp and clear. Even during the scenes when the soundtrack had effects and music, we were able to listen comfortably without turning up the sound uncomfortably...

..The music just sounds so full”, he said. Matt and I agreed that the Marantz NR1200 was not just good but really performed at a high level...

...When I watch movies, I am most interested in the reproduction of the voice and the clarity, since the voice carries the narrative and story. I found the reproduction very crisp and clear. Even during the scenes when the soundtrack had effects and music, we were able to listen comfortably without turning up the sound uncomfortably.

Finally, the DRA-800H

Denon DRA-800H Stereo Network Receiver Review Page 2

Along with smartphone and tablet control via the HEOS app, Denon's AVR Remote app provides most of the same control available through the handheld remote. The 9-inch handset isn't backlit, but its layout is nicely spread out, and it features large buttons for oft-used keys and was intuitive to...

www.soundandvision.com

..The sound from the DRA-800H and Revel pairing was characterized by tons of sonic detail, an extremely dimensional soundstage, and dynamics and headroom that usually rocked the house and did well handling sudden transient demands...

..Hearing the detail and imaging the DRA-800H delivered from this CD-quality Tidal stream put a grin on my face. Peterson's piano notes projected with body across the wide middle of the soundstage, while the triangle leaped out into the room and floated appropriately above all else, its sharp strike and lengthy decay perfectly intact, and its tone emanating with almost tuning-fork purity. The thickness of the bassist's notes, and the depth of inner detail and texture audible as the bow tugged across the strings, was just stunning. After the introduction, Thigpen's brushed snare and cymbal sounded as close to being in the room as I've ever heard it on any system...

..The system delivered a driving bass line, crisp transients on Clapton's plucked solo, and a seductive smoothness to his lead vocal. When the soprano backup singers break in at the left of the soundstage, the receiver's widely spread and dimensional image set them in strong relief against Clapton, the instruments, and—critically—each other, despite their close proximity...

..the DRA-800H sounded great with the Revels 99 percent of the time, and for much of that it was simply amazing, delivering incredible levels of detail, soundstaging, and dynamics...

There are also hundreds of reviews on Crutchfield, all 3 are rated 4.5 stars overall.

If I were to go with Sound and Vision's, the Denon would be a clear winner. Then again, for me subjective reviews are fun to read, but not part of my decision making process.

 

[peng]

I did turn the volume up (don't assume it wasnt tested on all volume levels). Situation was the same. Yamaha was "loud" but sound impression remained the same: distant treble (though nice imaging), emphasized bass. Went loud with Marantz - got the clarity and balanced bass/mids/highs.
THD+N doesnt have to be decisive factor (since the difference is really small).As for the Klippel test, with noisy room and headphones, reached -18dB.
Perhaps Yamaha's AB class Sunken transistor aren't great regarding powering impedance speakers like JBL Stage A180.

Thank you for the added info, but I did not assume anything, just try to follow your logic on the THD/output level thinking that is an interesting thought. So then I guess we can agree THD+N at below 1 W or less isn't likely the reason in your case.

 

[Nonick]

We can agree that THD+N below 1W isn't, most likely, the cause of unappealing sound output
I will perform a (subjective again) comparison Marantz NR1200 / Topping EX5/PA5 > JBL Stage A180.
(still waiting for EX5, becasue i can't find 4.4 mm balanced to XLR for connecting iFi Zen Blue to PA5)

It would be interesting to see speaker measurements (same SPL) with different amps. Same "laboratory" conditions, same speaker pair, but different amplifiers. With measured frequencies and output, it could be possible to solve the enigma of "amplifier sound signatures".
Maybe not solve, but maybe to move from deduction to inductive reasoning.

 

[peng]

We can agree that THD+N below 1W isn't, most likely, the cause of unappealing sound output
I will perform a (subjective again) comparison Marantz NR1200 / Topping EX5/PA5 > JBL Stage A180.
(still waiting for EX5, becasue i can't find 4.4 mm balanced to XLR for connecting iFi Zen Blue to PA5)

It would be interesting to see speaker measurements (same SPL) with different amps. Same "laboratory" conditions, same speaker pair, but different amplifiers. With measured frequencies and output, it could be possible to solve the enigma of "amplifier sound signatures".
Maybe not solve, but maybe to move from deduction to inductive reasoning.

I know you may be sick and tired of hearing about the need to do such comparison of amps with similar specs and/or measurements using tightly controlled double blind protocol, but based on studies such as Harmon's if you do it sighted, your results may not mean a whole lot. You may feel that the difference is so obvious that there is no need to do it blind or even level matched, but you may be surprised, like other including me have been surprised.

Once it is established that you do hear differences between them, then the other issue would kick in, that is, different people will have different taste so you may prefer one while others may prefer another but then I am sure you know that already. I no longer have the need to spend a lot of time any more, as I am very comfortable in relying on specs and measurements. The last time I bought a power amp after auditioning several, was when I bought the Bryston 4BSST. After that I must have bought at least half a dozen power amps, integrated amp, DACs, AVR/AVPs without listening to any or them prior.

 

[Shawn C]

Sorry for digging up an old thread but I just want to clarify something.

I own a DRA-800H and I want to use an external amp. If I use the Zone 2 outputs and turn on the All Zone Stereo feature, I'm essentially using the Zone 2 output as a pre-out? As long as I'm happy with using stereo processing? And I can adjust the volume with the Denon?

Just want to make sure before I spend money on amps.

 

[peng]

Sorry for digging up an old thread but I just want to clarify something.

I own a DRA-800H and I want to use an external amp. If I use the Zone 2 outputs and turn on the All Zone Stereo feature, I'm essentially using the Zone 2 output as a pre-out? And I can adjust the volume with the Denon?

Just want to make sure before I spend money on amps.

Based on the following, I think all will be good:

As long as I'm happy with using stereo processing?

I am not sure what you mean by this, it is a stereo receiver so only stereo processing is possible.

 

[Shawn C]

Based on the following, I think all will be good:

View attachment 223806



I am not sure what you mean by this, it is a stereo receiver so only stereo processing is possible.

Based on the discussion, I don't think I will be able use "Direct" or "Pure Direct". I think I will have to stick with the stereo processing.

 

[Almatti]

Hey Guys /Gals... Newbie to this forum. Looking at the posts Re: Denon DRA-800H, purchased in late 2020 after auditioning a few new Stereo Receivers /AMPS. Fortunately, Amazon has a liberal Try and Return Policy especially during COVID Hibernation. I finally settled on this DENON Receiver. I have not connected any Video yet in my finished basement Turned "mancave" (hate that term but using it here), and Music Studio. In 2019, I resurrected playing Drums after 50 Years [1969] as a recreation for my upcoming Retirement which happened May 2021. I use the "studio" for that purpose - to play my Drums to MY MUSIC.
I purchased 4 pairs of different speakers during this period: 1 Pair of Elac DB6.2s; 1 Pair of Elac DBR6.2s ; 1 Pair of Fluance Signature Series; and 1 Pair of KEF Q350s. And I also bought and use : 1 IOTA SA3 /PA3 Stack & a Emotiva A300 AMP. Overkill for sure. I have played with different speaker combos / locations. I did learn that OHMs are crucial with speaker/Amp selections. For now: The Denon is connected to A Channel to Elac DB62s and B Channel to the KEF Q350s. The Elac DBR62s and The Fluances to the IOTA /Emotiva Stack. I know this is a NO-NO in Audiophilism....but when the systems play simultaneously - it sounds like a Concert hall.
My question is this: The Elacs are rated 4-8 OHMs, but Nominal at 6 OHMs, Fluanance and KEF at Nominal 8 OHMs. Before I wired (I use 14 gauge Copper speaker wires for all the connections), the B channel on the Denon, I was using a Paralleling system with 2 pairs of speakers on one Channel on the Denon. After somewhat higher volumes....it would overheat and shut down. I learned that mixing a pair of 6 OHM and a pair of 8 OHM speakers put too much strain on the Receiver. I finally ran the the separate B channel wiring ,and using both the A & B channels, apparently w/o problems. I'm still wrestling with Fluances with the KEFs or the Elac DR62s with the KEFs. This is some of the stuff you can do in Retirement. I posted this FWIW... Happy Music to All

 

[Almatti]

Oh BTW, I use the Zone 2 feature on the Denon to play the systems simultaneously.

 

[Almatti]

I have a Denon DRA-800H purchased in mid 2020. Got it as the centerpiece for my newly created sound system in my finished basement, started bc of COVID Hibernation. First working from Home since March 2020, and then finally retiring in May 2021 (after a 6 month Long Term disability from spinal arthritis causing Chronic pain & unbearable stiffness). During this time, I tested a few other Receivers (Yamaha, Sony, even a cheapo Pyle Class D Receiver /Amp - all returned via Amazon). I settled on the Denon for the rave reviews, the power with 2 Channels that can be used, Including ability to use a Zone B Amp (which I do). Also purchased other stereo equipment IOTA SA3 /PA3 Stack; Emotiva A300 AMP, AT- 120LXBT -USB TT. Tascom CD player / Recorder; and a Teac Double Cassette Player /Recorder; and a 60 WATT Monoprice SW. And 4 pairs of 4 different bookshelf speakers: Fluance Signature Series; Elac Debut 6.2s , Elac DBR6.2s and a pair of KEF Q350s. I resurrected playing Drums again after 50 YEARS (1969) - I'm 70 Yo now. I am a Music Aficionado, but short of a Audiophile (although being an Audiophile can lead to OCD and becoming an Audiophiliac!). With this "stuff" I experimented with speaker combos, placements, and Equipment connections. I have 2 pairs of speakers connected to the Denon [ KEFS and Fluances], and the Elacs to the IOTA Stack and the Emotiva. What I have learned about Speaker OHMs and Stereo AMPs & ratings is newly gained knowledge. The 2 pairs of the Elacs [ 1 pair of Debut 6.2s and the other pair are Debut Reference 6.2s ] are 4-8 OHMs rated , however Nominal rating is 6 OHMs. When they are connected to the Denon, 1 pair to each Channel A & B, respectively, the Denon tends to overheat - it gets hots at 60-62 on the volume dial. If the other 2 pair are connected - the Fluances and The KEFs which are nominal rated at 8 OMS - no overheating occurs . What I learned was the two 8 OHM speakers create a draw of 4 OHMs on the Receiver which it can handle; the two 6 OHM Speakers is drawing at 3 OHMs which is below the rating on the Denon. But they play very well together in the rear of the room. The IOTA stack connected to the Fluances are no problem and the same with the Emotiva connected to the KEFs. The KEFs sound better connected to the Emotiva A300 Amp than to the Denon. The KEFs seem to get too Boomy / Mushy when played on the Denon.(read those comments on REDIT too) Hence my problem with these speaker/equipment combos. Yes, I know, I have created a Big NO-NO in Audiophile land. But When I play the entire system simultaneously, it sounds like a Concert Hall. I'll try to "experiment" further with other combos of speakers & equipment and report back.

 

[GiBo61]

Is there any way to play Lossless FLAC Streams from one of the many CD Quality Internet Radio available from the internet (link below) using the HEOS software from the Denon DRA 800H? I tried to ad a custom url of one of those radios to my TuneIn account but there is no way to get the stream play (to say the truth they don't play even from within the TuneIn app of my android smartphone or the TuneIn web page on my MacBook).
Here are some links to CD quality radio streams: https://www.hiresaudio.online/cd-quality-internet-radio/

 

[Blaireau]

Hello. I have a pair of JBL stage 1210 subwoofers (2x250w/4ohm rms). Can I use the DRA 800H as a power amplifier? Now I use a home-made 2x100w amplifier(TDA7293), which goes to maximum (it does not have a volume control). It receives the sub signal from a Denon AVR x3500h. So the question is, would the DRA 800H be up to the task?
I would only use it for listening to music.
(Google translator)

 

[GiBo61]

Hello. I have a pair of JBL stage 1210 subwoofers (2x250w/4ohm rms). Can I use the DRA 800H as a power amplifier? Now I use a home-made 2x100w amplifier(TDA7293), which goes to maximum (it does not have a volume control). It receives the sub signal from a Denon AVR x3500h. So the question is, would the DRA 800H be up to the task?
I would only use it for listening to music.
(Google translator)

Your question is not clear to me. You are planning to replace the Denon AVR x3500h+TDA7293 amplifier with a DRA 800H?

 

[Blaireau]

Your question is not clear to me. You are planning to replace the Denon AVR x3500h+TDA7293 amplifier with a DRA 800H?

Sorry! Again: I have an x3500h receiver. I connected a homemade 2x100W external amplifier (TDA7293) to the output of the subwoofer, which drives a pair of JBL Stage1210 (2x250W RMS) speakers. This TDA7293 doesn't meet my needs, so I want to upgrade to a DRA-800H. The DRA-800H power amplifier would be the two JBL subwoofers, and it would receive the sub signal from the x3500h. The question is, would the DRA-800H be up to the task? Does it have enough power to drive two JBLs? I use 4 channels of the x3500h + the DRA800H would be connected to the subwoofer output and the DRA800H would only drive 2 JBL subwoofers.

 

[GiBo61]

Sorry! Again: I have an x3500h receiver. I connected a homemade 2x100W external amplifier (TDA7293) to the output of the subwoofer, which drives a pair of JBL Stage1210 (2x250W RMS) speakers. This TDA7293 doesn't meet my needs, so I want to upgrade to a DRA-800H. The DRA-800H power amplifier would be the two JBL subwoofers, and it would receive the sub signal from the x3500h. The question is, would the DRA-800H be up to the task? Does it have enough power to drive two JBLs? I use 4 channels of the x3500h + the DRA800H would be connected to the subwoofer output and the DRA800H would only drive 2 JBL subwoofers.

What I was missing is that the JBL Stage 1210 are PASSIVE subwoofers that need amplification. Although my guess is that with more than 140W at 4 Ohm the DRA800H is powerful enough, what you are proposing it's a strange setup. I would probably opt for a more powerful Class D amplifier than the one you have now, something based on a Hypex Ncore NC252MP like this. However I'm not sure the sub output level of the Denon x3500h is enough to drive at full power the AUDIOPHONICS amplifier. You should definetly get advice from someone with more experience than me on passive subwoofers.

 

[Blaireau]

What I was missing is that the JBL Stage 1210 are PASSIVE subwoofers that need amplification. Although my guess is that with more than 140W at 4 Ohm the DRA800H is powerful enough, what you are proposing it's a strange setup. I would probably opt for a more powerful Class D amplifier than the one you have now, something based on a Hypex Ncore NC252MP like this. However I'm not sure the sub output level of the Denon x3500h is enough to drive at full power the AUDIOPHONICS amplifier. You should definetly get advice from someone with more experience than me on passive subwoofers.

Yes, the JBL Stage 1210 is passive and therefore requires a suitable power amplifier. I already own the x3500h. I thought of the DRA800 because it matches the x3500h in terms of color and shape.
I assume that Denon designs its products so that they are compatible and combinable with each other.
The next question is, if I get the DRA800H, what settings should I use? In previous posts, experts wrote about many options: pure direct mode, direct mode, main zone, dual mono, digital or analog input/output.... Which sensitivity should I choose on the DRA800 device? 4 or 8 ohms? (my JBL Stage 1210 is 4 ohm) So how can I get the best out of the DRA800?

 

[peng]

Yes, the JBL Stage 1210 is passive and therefore requires a suitable power amplifier. I already own the x3500h. I thought of the DRA800 because it matches the x3500h in terms of color and shape.
I assume that Denon designs its products so that they are compatible and combinable with each other.

The Dra-800h is an integrated amp and imo does not have the output power to get the best of your subwoofer, why not grab a class d high power amp such as the Crown XLS2502 or even the 1502?

 

[Blaireau]

The Dra-800h is an integrated amp and imo does not have the output power to get the best of your subwoofer, why not grab a class d high power amp such as the Crown XLS2502 or even the 1502?

Yes, Crown was one of the possible options, but unfortunately it doesn't fit the x3500h aesthetically. If the DRA800 can produce 2x140-150W RMS/4Ω, it is much better than the 2x100W TDA7293. In theory.

 

[peng]

Yes, Crown was one of the possible options, but unfortunately it doesn't fit the x3500h aesthetically. If the DRA800 can produce 2x140-150W RMS/4Ω, it is much better than the 2x100W TDA7293. In theory.

The DRA is rated 100 W 8 ohm, 120 W 6 ohm but at higher THD. It is only 4 ohm compatible if you use the 4 ohm impedance setting. If you use that setting, the output will be limited, likely to well below 100 W. If you leave the setting at 8 ohm, it will likely give you the 140-150 w that you seem to be expecting, based on bench test results, but at that output level, it can't sustain for too long.

So, it is up to you to accept certain risk. If you don't listen loud, such as at 10 dB or more below reference level, you may be fine, just not something I can recommend. It is better to get a real 4 ohm rated power amp.