Denon AVR-X3800H is released.

[tifune]

. Fire or not at the AKM factory, they could’ve used a better DAC specially at the 41.6% price increase over the AKM 3700H.

Better how?

 

[JStewart]

From Robert Zohn of Value Electronics

Sound United Rocks the Industry: Announces Dirac Live Functionality on Select Denon and Marantz AVRs and Pre/Pros

(September 27, 2022) CEDIA week is always full of surprises, and this is a big one. Today, Dirac and Sound United announced a collaboration to make Dirac Live available in several new AV receivers and preamps from Denon and Marantz. Bringing Dirac functionality to these brands is a major blow...

www.avnirvana.com

 

[CyrusTheGreat_600BC]

Better how?

Measured. So far, we’ve not seen any concrete numbers for the implemented new chips from TI.

 

[tifune]

From Robert Zohn of Value Electronics

Sound United Rocks the Industry: Announces Dirac Live Functionality on Select Denon and Marantz AVRs and Pre/Pros

(September 27, 2022) CEDIA week is always full of surprises, and this is a big one. Today, Dirac and Sound United announced a collaboration to make Dirac Live available in several new AV receivers and preamps from Denon and Marantz. Bringing Dirac functionality to these brands is a major blow...

www.avnirvana.com

It would probably help if I could simply find the manual, but am I correct that the only difference between 3800 and 4800 is an extra 20W per channel? Surely there's more to it

 

[JStewart]

It would probably help if I could simply find the manual, but am I correct that the only difference between 3800 and 4800 is an extra 20W per channel? Surely there's more to it

The link I posted was Robert Zhon of Value Electronics confirming with his contacts at sound united that DLBC is coming to these units.

If no one here can answer your question you might try reaching out to him.

 

[delta76]

It would probably help if I could simply find the manual, but am I correct that the only difference between 3800 and 4800 is an extra 20W per channel? Surely there's more to it

outside of feature differences, which could be small, Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam.
(not saying that's enough to justify the price difference, but it definitely contributes)

 

[Destroid]

4800 differences so far:

Made in Japan
125W
2 line display
front panel door
7 (1 more) HDMI input
3 trigger outs (vs 1)
zone 3 analog audio
component video in
composite video in (two)

Source https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX4800/Denon-AVR-X4800H.html

 

[symphara]

4800 differences so far:

Made in Japan
125W
2 line display
front panel door
7 (1 more) HDMI input
3 trigger outs (vs 1)
zone 3 analog audio
component video in
composite video in (two)

Source https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX4800/Denon-AVR-X4800H.html

better distortion figure (0.05 vs 0.08)
analog-to-HDMI conversion

 

[delta76]

better distortion figure (0.05 vs 0.08)
analog-to-HDMI conversion

when it starts to distort it goes sharply, so I think if it was 0.08%, x4800h probably pulled 127 or 128w per channel. Denon goes with 125w@0.05% because it looks nicer, that's all. still ~1dB difference
and analog to HDMI conversion would be a very very niche market these days.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I know and agree that THD metrics reflect the quality of the design and engineering in an Audio product... but .. people! ... 0.08 versus 0.05 % ??? .
is above and beyond "splitting hair" .
And we know now that past 85dB of SINAD , most people (including the audiophiles) on the planet will not hear a difference .. Do we expect audible differences between AKM and TI, DACs?
I'd like to know what DRC/DSP these have : Better version of Audyssey? Better control over Audyssey settings? I'd like for example to switch from one Audyssey setting to another, without having to go thru the Audyssey App... You know, two or more profiles, that a person can recall from a remote control... Better multiple subwoofer management? Either Audyssey or DIRAC for each of the 4 sub outs?
Power consumption? This has become a serious issue with the price of energy going up everywhere. Unfortunate, also, that they don't use Class D amp or do they?

Else, IMHO, a decent offering, that improves on the 3700.

Peace

 

[peng]

With the good relation amir has built with Denon/Marantz, I’m wondering if the X3800H is already being measured, or it’s measured but the result has to be compared/reported to the manufacturer first. Even if the difference in SINAD of the new DACs is not audible, they may not like it if their brand new AVR measures worse than their own previous models. Fire or not at the AKM factory, they could’ve used a better DAC specially at the 41.6% price increase over the AKM 3700H.

Agreed, it might have been fine with the X3700H to have the PCM5102A but there is no excuse to not use something like the PCM1976, or at least the ES9010K2M for the upper models especially the very expensive X6800H. Whether a better chip means audibly better or not would be a different discussion.

Now if you want a Denon that has the better DAC chips your only choice would seem to be the AVR-A1H but that's really expensive.

 

[symphara]

when it starts to distort it goes sharply, so I think if it was 0.08%, x4800h probably pulled 127 or 128w per channel. Denon goes with 125w@0.05% because it looks nicer, that's all. still ~1dB difference
and analog to HDMI conversion would be a very very niche market these days.

I made no comment or value judgement whatsoever, just blindly comparing the listed specs.

Otherwise I agree with you. Talk about niche, the 4800 would still work with my Nintendo Wii, which has analog outputs!

 

[voodooless]

I made no comment or value judgement whatsoever, just blindly comparing the listed specs.

Otherwise I agree with you. Talk about niche, the 4800 would still work with my Nintendo Wii, which has analog outputs!

A $€£ 20 component to HDMI box would do it as well. I doubt that’s worth all the extra money

 

[abdo123]

A $€£ 20 component to HDMI box would do it as well. I doubt that’s worth all the extra money

Honestly if you add up the 1000% markup that each of these individual components will have you will end up with a similar number.

 

[symphara]

A $€£ 20 component to HDMI box would do it as well. I doubt that’s worth all the extra money

That feature, not for sure. I don't know if the 4800 is worth the extra money.

But then again, I felt the same about the 3700 vs 4700 and ended up buying a 4700 because of sheer lack of availability, and now I kindof like it. The bigger display, the front HDMI made REW much easier, the Auro2D mixer which the 3700 I think lacks but it's surprisingly decent... And I got a good deal for it which made the price difference sting a bit less.

 

[Sancus]

From Robert Zohn of Value Electronics

Sound United Rocks the Industry: Announces Dirac Live Functionality on Select Denon and Marantz AVRs and Pre/Pros

(September 27, 2022) CEDIA week is always full of surprises, and this is a big one. Today, Dirac and Sound United announced a collaboration to make Dirac Live available in several new AV receivers and preamps from Denon and Marantz. Bringing Dirac functionality to these brands is a major blow...

www.avnirvana.com

Wow, this makes the new lineup a real game changer. Even if Dirac + DLBC costs $700, that means the X3800H will get you DLBC on 4 subs for $2400. The HTP-1 at $4500 was the cheapest way to do that previously.

Glad Sound United really is paying attention.

 

[CyrusTheGreat_600BC]

That feature, not for sure. I don't know if the 4800 is worth the extra money.

But then again, I felt the same about the 3700 vs 4700 and ended up buying a 4700 because of sheer lack of availability, and now I kindof like it. The bigger display, the front HDMI made REW much easier, the Auro2D mixer which the 3700 I think lacks but it's surprisingly decent... And I got a good deal for it which made the price difference sting a bit less.

4800 no longer makes any sense. They should drop it and continue with 3x and 6x series. Before, only 4700 had Auro3D. Now 3800 has everything. To be honest, the marginal power difference was never worth it. Once you try an external amp, you never go back to AVR power amps. Even cheap 60W per channel amps off eBay, like Crestron 12x60 or 16x60, have better sound and better toroidal transformers.

 

[delta76]

when it starts to distort it goes sharply, so I think if it was 0.08%, x4800h probably pulled 127 or 128w per channel. Denon goes with 125w@0.05% because it looks nicer, that's all. still ~1dB difference
and analog to HDMI conversion would be a very very niche market these days.

Apparently x4700h has the same specs. It is not too surprising if they reuse the same amp design. It is even possible that x3800h has similar design with some downgrade (power limiting etc.)

 

[Sancus]

They clearly think people will pay extra for the made-in-japan and redesigned amplifier. I think they are wrong about that, but who knows. It's a very specific marketing play, so they'll find out by how many people buy it.

Dropping the front-mounted HDMI port is sort of adding insult to injury on that model.

The 2-line display has always been quite nice, though, I forgot that the lower models don't have it.

 

[symphara]

4800 no longer makes any sense. They should drop it and continue with 3x and 6x series. Before, only 4700 had Auro3D. Now 3800 has everything. To be honest, the marginal power difference was never worth it. Once you try an external amp, you never go back to AVR power amps. Even cheap 60W per channel amps off eBay, like Crestron 12x60 or 16x60, have better sound and better toroidal transformers.

I think my 4700 has Auro2D while my 8500 has both 2D and 3D.