Denon AVR vs AVC?

[-Matt-]

I understand that the R in AVR is for receiver and that this implies the capability to receive radio programs. But why do Denon think europeans wouldn't want AM/FM radio whilst US users would? Also what is the "C" in AVC supposed to stand for? Would there be too much additional cost associated with satisfying regulatory requirements perhaps?

Here is an example of the US AVR version with ports for AM and FM antennas:

...and here is the Euro AVC version without:

(On the left side of the image, sorry they are greyed out).

 

[-Matt-]

In the US manual you get instructions like this:

Whilst in the UK one we only get this statement:

 

[staticV3]

Also what is the "C" inn AVC supposed to stand for?

GPT-4 to the rescue:

 

[-Matt-]

Hmm, well that answers the C = controller part.

A lot of the rest seems incorrect in that there are no additional HDMI ports or features, and it makes it sound like it is a choice for the user which one they get. That isn't the case here and my question is really mostly about why Denon decide that they need to offer a different feature set in different markets?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Perhaps it reflects the EU direction of switching off FM and AM radio?

 

[-Matt-]

Perhaps it reflects the EU direction of switching off FM and AM radio?

Probably, but...

Current UK policy is that FM will be needed until at least 2030.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...d-audio-review/digital-radio-and-audio-review

 

[Music707]

IIRC in Germany every new device that is capable of receiving analog radio must be capable of receiving digital radio, too. Otherwise the sale is not permitted. Therefore, Denon could not simply sell the US version (with probably minor technical adjustments) on the German market. Denon would have to implement the digital radio standard (DAB+) in addition to the 'pure analog radio' US version. Dropping both analog and digital radio for Denon obviously is the much simpler solution.

Most likely you will find similar rulings in other EU countries, too.

 

[-Matt-]

IIRC in Germany every new device that is capable of receiving analog radio must be capable of receiving digital radio, too. Otherwise the sale is not permitted. Therefore, Denon could not simply sell the US version (with probably minor technical adjustments) on the German market. Denon would have to implement the digital radio standard (DAB+) in addition to the 'pure analog radio' US version. Dropping both analog and digital radio for Denon obviously is the much simpler solution.

Most likely you will find similar rulings in other EU countries, too.

Sounds plausible (unfortunately)

 

[Propheticus]

And with the varying DAB+ reception in well insulated (double layer airgapped concrete/brick) European homes, you're often better of using internet radio anyway.
DAB+ is nice for your car, but at home... hit or miss.

 

[-Matt-]

Although terrestrial radio wasn't working in his case:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ning-off-landlines-in-2025.47623/post-1837823

@restorer-john made me think it would be nice to have a decent FM radio in the house, even if just in case of emergency.

Emergency broadcast via cell phone totally failed for me:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65367282

 

[EWL5]

IIRC in Germany every new device that is capable of receiving analog radio must be capable of receiving digital radio, too. Otherwise the sale is not permitted. Therefore, Denon could not simply sell the US version (with probably minor technical adjustments) on the German market. Denon would have to implement the digital radio standard (DAB+) in addition to the 'pure analog radio' US version. Dropping both analog and digital radio for Denon obviously is the much simpler solution.

Most likely you will find similar rulings in other EU countries, too.

That's an absolutely great reason not to include the radio!

Perhaps the EEs in this forum can answer this but does excluding AM/FM functionality improve sound quality by virtue of having less interference from this additional equipment?

 

[-Matt-]

That's an absolutely great reason not to include the radio!

Perhaps the EEs in this forum can answer this but does excluding AM/FM functionality improve sound quality by virtue of having less interference from this additional equipment?

Well less stuff in the box means fewer things to cause problems!

But we are talking about receiving equipment, not transmitting, so it seems unlikely it would have any effect, especially when not in use.

 

[TimoJ]

But why does Denon offer all models below AVC-X3800H with tuners in Europe? They even have two models of AVR-X1800H, one with DAB and one with FM tuner.

 

[-Matt-]

But why does Denon offer all models below AVC-X3800H with tuners in Europe? They even have two models of AVR-X1800H, one with DAB and one with FM tuner.

Good point!

 

[Propheticus]

I wouldn't be surprised when it turns out their user / market research indicated buyers of higher end AVC/AVRs hardly use the FM radio any more.
My expectation based on nothing more than a handful of reference points (so anecdotal) is that most use either online streaming services, DLNA (e.g. from a NAS) or internet radio.

 

[-Matt-]

I wouldn't be surprised when it turns out their user / market research indicated buyers of higher end AVC/AVRs hardly use the FM radio any more.
My expectation based on nothing more than a handful of reference points (so anecdotal) is that most use either online streaming services, DLNA (e.g. from a NAS) or internet radio.

Yes, I'd expect this line of reasoning too. The problem is that it should probably apply equally to US users as to euro ones.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

IIRC in Germany every new device that is capable of receiving analog radio must be capable of receiving digital radio, too. Otherwise the sale is not permitted. Therefore, Denon could not simply sell the US version (with probably minor technical adjustments) on the German market. Denon would have to implement the digital radio standard (DAB+) in addition to the 'pure analog radio' US version. Dropping both analog and digital radio for Denon obviously is the much simpler solution.

Most likely you will find similar rulings in other EU countries, too.

This is probably it. DAB+ coupled with an AM/FM tuner is probably a few cents more per device to implement than a simple AM/FM tuner and perhaps their research shows a lack of demand, so why put the price up, or reduce profit?

 

[antcollinet]

I can't remember the last time I used an actual radio tuner except in the car. Not even DAB.

 

[-Matt-]

To @TimoJ 's point:

AVR-X1700H = £649
AVR-X1700H DAB = £699
£50 premium for DAB

AVR-X1800H = £699
AVR-X1800H DAB = £749
£50 premium for DAB

AVR-X2800H = £869
AVR-X2800H DAB = £899
£30 premium for DAB


It seems possible to sell the non-DAB versions (which do still have FM) in the UK without breaking any laws.

 

[-Matt-]

I can't remember the last time I used an actual radio tuner except in the car. Not even DAB.

Fair enough, but it is still nice to have the option.

I'm just curious why Denon think it is ok to remove that option for euro markets but maintain it for US.