Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review

[Killingbeans]

Thanks for sharing, I didn't know about the brain plasticity.

It's a mechanism of biology that's really great for survival and energy conservation, but absolutely catastrophic for judgement of long term changes in audio.

It's a godsent for the high-end industry and snake-oil vendors though. The myth of burn-in as a physical phenomena makes customer satisfaction much, much more manageable.

Echoic memory makes a mess of the short term stuff. If you want any sort of reliable judgement in A/B comparisons, there's no way around instantaneous switching.

By the way, this could be a very interesting test to be made by @amirm using a Denafrips DAC if there is any available.
Before burn-in and after let's say 100-200 hours with a new firmware update.

It would be beating a poor horse that's already been dead for a long, long time.

As far as I remember, @amirm has already done a few investigations of before and after burn-in/break-in as part of some reviews, just for fun. They all showed what could/should be expected: zero difference.

 

[Klipscher]

Biggest upgrade with the new firmware is it fixes the issue with micro skips at start of track I was experiencing with the wiim pro. Used to happen when there was a resolution change in a playlist on tidal.

For me it completely fixed the issue. Only other differences was in the bass but without the equipment to test this just going by audio memory so I leave it at that.

 

[zepplock]

"firmware burn-in"?
This is getting weeeeeird maaaan.

I hope people are joking, right? Right?

 

[Killingbeans]

Probably not joking. There's no limit to the batshit crazy stuff people are being fooled into believing in this hobby.

Critical thinking isn't exactly encouraged by the "authority".

Best case, it's the last death cramps of the audiophile industry as it has become. Worst case, it's just biology doing its thing.

 

[nawfal07]

Firmware burn-in, first time I heard this, on ASR to boot, ironic bordering to moronic. I guess I have to burn-in my countless Windows 11 updates before using my laptop.

 

[Killingbeans]

I'd imagine it's common lore in places like Audiophile Style, and then it oozes out and contaminates everything, unless people are quick with a mop.

 

[Veri]

Firmware burn-in, first time I heard this, on ASR to boot, ironic bordering to moronic. I guess I have to burn-in my countless Windows 11 updates before using my laptop.

What can I say those bits and bytes aren't gonna burn in themselves....

 

[Jimbob54]

Firmware burn-in, first time I heard this, on ASR to boot, ironic bordering to moronic. I guess I have to burn-in my countless Windows 11 updates before using my laptop.

No no no, you can of course use the laptop straight after an update but it will only perform optimally after a few days of constant use.

 

[Killingbeans]

I guess I have to burn-in my countless Windows 11 updates before using my laptop.

It's a really fascinating thing about the hobby. How it sort of creates a bubble around itself with an alternative logic inside.

There are so many hard held beliefs in high-end audio, that deflates themselves instantly as soon as you try to apply them to any other comparative non-audio use case.

It's like Hi-Fi is used a little safe zone, where people can freely exercise their primeval lust for mysticism and the supernatural, under the presumption that it doesn't do any real damage.

 

[Jimbob54]

It's a really fascinating thing about the hobby. How it sort of creates a bubble around itself with an alternative logic inside.

There are so many hard held beliefs in high-end audio, that deflates themselves instantly as soon as you try to apply them to any other comparative non-audio use case.

It's like Hi-Fi is used a little safe zone, where people can freely exercise their primeval lust for mysticism and the supernatural, under the presumption that it doesn't do any real damage.

I suspect a lot of it results from the ears being the ultimate judge of a system in audiophileland. To admit any perceived differences/ benefits might be on the human end of the chain would be to admit the ears / brain of the listener are imperfect. Hence, everything has to be explained away by some change in the system. Burn in being a convenient fall back.

 

[CleanSound]

That's O type transformer which is different from commonly called Toroidal transformer. (the cross section is also toroidal) These have even less magnetic leakage which is ideal for audio.(and relatively small chassis) They are expensive and perhaps to you an overkill but good.

Hi John,

Can you explain the engineering reason why Topping moved away from linear power supply to switch mode power supply? I know that with SMSP, you can much much less magnetic leakage, but it also has high frequency noise caused by the switching/pwm.

Does the high frequency noise caused by SMPS affect audible performance and if so, how does Topping remediate this engineering challenge.

Also, what is Topping's view on R2R vs D/S DAC? Will Topping consider a R2R DAC?

 

[Killingbeans]

Maybe post it in this thread instead? :

Ask me questions.

Anything related. I answer them as much as I can.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[CleanSound]

Maybe post it in this thread instead? :

Ask me questions.

Anything related. I answer them as much as I can.

www.audiosciencereview.com

I thought about that thread. But I think that thread is done. His last reply was back in July.

 

[Jimster480]

I thought about that thread. But I think that thread is done. His last reply was back in July.

The post you replied to is from January 2020 though.
I don't really think that Topping will do an R2R DAC because there is no reason for this...

 

[funnychap]

Here's my Youtube video of my new Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1 dac versus Denafrips Ares II 12th, used with the Denafrips Iris 12th (a DDC) via I2S.
Love it, sounds even better (better vocalist, bigger soundstage, more 3D depth, clarity, I can hear new instruments).
streaming source=Apple Music lossless, hi-res lossless, spatial audio surround sound

 

[tw99]

New instruments ? That old Ares must have been terrible then, if it was masking so much. or maybe you're just falling into the same trap as every other subjective comparison....

 

[Jimster480]

Here's my Youtube video of my new Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1 dac versus Denafrips Ares II 12th, used with the Denafrips Iris 12th (a DDC) via I2S.
Love it, sounds even better (better vocalist, bigger soundstage, more 3D depth, clarity, I can hear new instruments).
streaming source=Apple Music lossless, hi-res lossless, spatial audio surround sound

Makes no sense... $2500... I would bet it doesn't out perform the $200 DAC's on this site...
There is no "magic" in R2R; DS does the same thing but using modern technology. The Waveforms on DS DAC's of today are better than the best R2R of the yesteryear.

 

[voodooless]

Here's my Youtube video of my new Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1 dac versus Denafrips Ares II 12th, used with the Denafrips Iris 12th (a DDC) via I2S.
Love it, sounds even better (better vocalist, bigger soundstage, more 3D depth, clarity, I can hear new instruments).
streaming source=Apple Music lossless, hi-res lossless, spatial audio surround sound

And obviously, you're using the thing in NOS mode

And it seems like the Pontus II does more than 10dB worse than the product reviewed here:

See:

Denafrips Pontus 2 (12th Anniversary Edition) Measurements - GoldenSound

Measurements of the Denafrips Pontus 2 12th Anniversary R2R DAC, and testing to see whether claims of NOS capability are true.

goldensound.audio

 

[Killingbeans]

Love it, sounds even better (better vocalist, bigger soundstage, more 3D depth, clarity, I can hear new instruments).

I agree with @tw99 The old DAC must be absolute garbage if it manages to mask entire musical instruments

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's far, far more likely that you were simply paying more attention when listening to the new one:

Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)

Just uploaded a video on the basics of performing controlled tests in audio. It was motivated by saving myself text in having to write all of this down when telling someone who to do these tests right. And as a counter to a few online personalities to keep saying they do "blind" tests yet when...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Deleted member 5641]

I agree with @tw99 The old DAC must be absolute garbage if it manages to mask entire musical instruments

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's far, far more likely that you were simply paying more attention when listening to the new one:

Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)

Just uploaded a video on the basics of performing controlled tests in audio. It was motivated by saving myself text in having to write all of this down when telling someone who to do these tests right. And as a counter to a few online personalities to keep saying they do "blind" tests yet when...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Haha that was one of my wake up calls when coming to Audiophilia. I’d hear some never before heard detail on the new gear… until switching back to the old, and yup, there it was.

While proper level matched DBX is hard to pull off for a lot of people, a simple rotation *back* to prior gear often reveals wonders.

PS - Steve Hoffman shared some crackpot theory on this on shtv.