Dan Clark Stealth Review (State of the Art Headphone)

[nonnyno]

meaning: headphone measurements say very little ?

There are quite a few headphones (all open) that are not very seal dependent. The supplied data (up to several kHz) is quite reliable for those headphones.
Also quite a few planars do not change the lows much with some small seal issues.

So one can form an opinion on quite a lot of (not closed) headphones based on headphone measurements.
With IEM's there are also seal and insertion depth/comfort issues.

That said... I do agree that one should audition headphones or be able to return them if they don't suit you (sound or comfort wise)

Seal dependency is presumably just one factor but your head has bumps and variations and presumably your ears do too and presumably dependent on position variation you may or not bring some of those into play every time you put your headphones on as unfortunately you don't have a guide etched onto your head. Doesn't that mean its well nigh impossible to actually get any consistent readings - just a rough guide in the real world? That would suggest that in the real world you still need to listen (prob over a period of time) to be really sure that you like a headphone (and bear in mind I'm saying "like a headphone" rather than liking its neutrality because your taste might not be for neutrality). I find this all very complicated. I read the review on the Crinnacle iem's and thought that would be nice but then why do we need the Expanses/Stealths et al? They cost a fortune need careful driving and aren't as accurate. I think I'm going to go back and read all the total newbie stuff again - I'm missing something.

I tried an old hd800 last night vs my DCA Aeon Noire's. Each had small advantages but I must confess the one that made my toes tap was the hd800 (though it might be less accurate). That sound stage was something else. It sounded a little ethereal in comparison (is the word weight?). The base was definitely not as present but ithe headphone just had something (nmaybe it was the weight and comfort). Amusingly the old I heard things I haven't heard before phrase came to mind (how much was placebo or wishful thinking I don't know. Perhaps it was the lighter weight and the fact that my ears weren't as warm). Immediately swapping to the Noires meant I heard other things slightly more but overall I think I'd give the while experience to the hd800.

I've come to the conclusion that the idea of an endgame is utter rubbish. We will all be desperately seeking perfection for all time no matter how much most of us try to pretend otherwise.

 

[Jimster480]

Seal dependency is presumably just one factor but your head has bumps and variations and presumably your ears do too and presumably dependent on position variation you may or not bring some of those into play every time you put your headphones on as unfortunately you don't have a guide etched onto your head. Doesn't that mean its well nigh impossible to actually get any consistent readings - just a rough guide in the real world? That would suggest that in the real world you still need to listen (prob over a period of time) to be really sure that you like a headphone (and bear in mind I'm saying "like a headphone" rather than liking its neutrality because your taste might not be for neutrality). I find this all very complicated. I read the review on the Crinnacle iem's and thought that would be nice but then why do we need the Expanses/Stealths et al? They cost a fortune need careful driving and aren't as accurate. I think I'm going to go back and read all the total newbie stuff again - I'm missing something.

I tried an old hd800 last night vs my DCA Aeon Noire's. Each had small advantages but I must confess the one that made my toes tap was the hd800 (though it might be less accurate). That sound stage was something else. It sounded a little ethereal in comparison (is the word weight?). The base was definitely not as present but ithe headphone just had something (nmaybe it was the weight and comfort). Amusingly the old I heard things I haven't heard before phrase came to mind (how much was placebo or wishful thinking I don't know. Perhaps it was the lighter weight and the fact that my ears weren't as warm). Immediately swapping to the Noires meant I heard other things slightly more but overall I think I'd give the while experience to the hd800.

I've come to the conclusion that the idea of an endgame is utter rubbish. We will all be desperately seeking perfection for all time no matter how much most of us try to pretend otherwise.

To me the Hd800 is complete trash VS even my original Aeon Flow Closed.
The drivers have ringing, it lacks bass even more so than the original Aeon and the speed and as such imaging is definitely worse.
Hd800 is a dynamic driver, it's limited VS planars in terms of speed.

The questions I have are what music you were listening to, what artists and what kind of hardware setup do you have? If your Amp can't provide enough current it brings the 800 way closer to the Aeon.

 

[nonnyno]

To me the Hd800 is complete trash VS even my original Aeon Flow Closed.
The drivers have ringing, it lacks bass even more so than the original Aeon and the speed and as such imaging is definitely worse.
Hd800 is a dynamic driver, it's limited VS planars in terms of speed.

The questions I have are what music you were listening to, what artists and what kind of hardware setup do you have? If your Amp can't provide enough current it brings the 800 way closer to the Aeon.

I've currently got the hd800 and the DCA Aeon 2 Noires. The speed difference was minimal and the soundstage may not have been as realistic though it was definitely wider and I enjoyed it more except for the hot treble. The bass I didn't miss as much as I thought I would. The soundstage really added something.

Topping L50/E50 on trs balanced. I think it can provide the current. If you read my post you'll see I enjoyed the hd800 more than the DCA Aeon 2 Noire. I was surprised.

 

[SDC]

I bought stealth today and using it with clarret+8pre. Just enough power before clipping.

Objectively I know this is the SOTA money gets.

Subjectively, bass is good. Speedy, I mean it is tight and clean like good pair of speakers with flat fr responce.

But mid and highs are bit disappointing. Not smooth as expected.
It is very strange experience, tonality is good compaired to my speaker setup but ears hurt more from highs.
It sounds very similar but different at the same time...

So I don't know how to wrap up this headphone. It is just weird... Make sure you listen to it before buying.

 

[solderdude]

Above 6-8kHz the treble may vary substantially between an industry standard measurement and real life situations on someone's head.
So for that reason alone the curve may measure perfectly according to an overly smoothed and not really accurate 'target' and even more so with 'accurate' EQ yet sound sharp in the treble.

 

[woofersus]

I had a chance to try these out at Pacific Audio Fest on a Qobuz demo. The song was something by John Mayer. (I don't remember exactly which, but I was familiar with it) I know he has a bit of a nasally voice which may have exaggerated things a little, but during the intro with the guitar I was impressed, but when he started singing holy cow was it crispy. There was a ton of extra energy above maybe 5-6Khz such that the voice stood out sharply above the rest of the music and was fairly sibilant. Sibilance tends to center in the 7-8Khz range but I think the extra energy here extended to 10Khz and beyond. It was unlistenable for me. Couldn't take them off fast enough. The amp didn't look to have an EQ that someone could have messed with. My head is pretty big but it felt like I had a good, secure fit.

I know they could be EQ'd to my taste as well, but I'm not going to spend $1500 on headphones and was mostly curious about a set of headphones that measured so close to the curve. I'm just confused about it now and want to hear more examples.

I don't know if maybe my personal preference is just not in line with the Harman Curve, but the weird thing is I have an old pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm headphones, and those measure a bit bright but I never minded them. This seems like a contradiction unless something goofy was happening with pads or inserts or something. Or maybe the recording was just that bad? It took forever to load on the slow hotel wi-fi and after trying to get another track going for a couple of minutes I gave up.

 

[AdamG]

know if maybe my personal preference is just not in line with the Harman Curve,

The Harman Preference Curve is an average preference of surveyed participants. So since it is just an average preference there will always be folks who want more Bass, or less base or more treble and so on. It’s just an Average from a sample group. It’s a “Preference” curve, not a target. Imho the most important measurement for Headphones is low distortion across the audible range 20hz to 16khz (give or take based on your personal hearing range). If you have a headphone with low distortion measurements then you can EQ to taste without worrying about driving the speakers into distortion.

 

[woofersus]

Yeah, I'm familiar with their research. I was speaking more in terms of the measurement against it which sort of establishes it as a target, at least for Amir's review purposes. In any case, I haven't listened to enough headphones to have a good frame of reference for how these measurements relate to what I hear, so I wasn't sure what to expect. It seems like much more of a crapshoot than speaker measurements.

I have some NuForce IEM's that measure fairly flat but I've always found super anemic at the low end (seal issues, I'm sure) though smooth up top, and the Beyers I mentioned above that I sort of like but measure bright. I was just super surprised to perceive these as much brighter sounding than them.

 

[Rthomas]

Yeah, I'm familiar with their research. I was speaking more in terms of the measurement against it which sort of establishes it as a target, at least for Amir's review purposes. In any case, I haven't listened to enough headphones to have a good frame of reference for how these measurements relate to what I hear, so I wasn't sure what to expect. It seems like much more of a crapshoot than speaker measurements.

I have some NuForce IEM's that measure fairly flat but I've always found super anemic at the low end (seal issues, I'm sure) though smooth up top, and the Beyers I mentioned above that I sort of like but measure bright. I was just super surprised to perceive these as much brighter sounding than them.

Please try the Focal Utopia and let us know how it compares to the Stealth in terms of listening enjoyment. I’d be interested in your impressions

 

[woofersus]

Please try the Focal Utopia and let us know how it compares to the Stealth in terms of listening enjoyment. I’d be interested in your impressions

I'd love to if I get a chance. I'll certainly report back if I do.

 

[Rthomas]

I'd love to if I get a chance. I'll certainly report back if I do.

I tried the Stealth, LCD5, Susvara and the Utopia at home. I only kept the Utopia

 

[IAtaman]

I tried the Stealth, LCD5, Susvara and the Utopia at home. I only kept the Utopia

You sold the house?

 

[Robbo99999]

I had a chance to try these out at Pacific Audio Fest on a Qobuz demo. The song was something by John Mayer. (I don't remember exactly which, but I was familiar with it) I know he has a bit of a nasally voice which may have exaggerated things a little, but during the intro with the guitar I was impressed, but when he started singing holy cow was it crispy. There was a ton of extra energy above maybe 5-6Khz such that the voice stood out sharply above the rest of the music and was fairly sibilant. Sibilance tends to center in the 7-8Khz range but I think the extra energy here extended to 10Khz and beyond. It was unlistenable for me. Couldn't take them off fast enough. The amp didn't look to have an EQ that someone could have messed with. My head is pretty big but it felt like I had a good, secure fit.

I know they could be EQ'd to my taste as well, but I'm not going to spend $1500 on headphones and was mostly curious about a set of headphones that measured so close to the curve. I'm just confused about it now and want to hear more examples.

I don't know if maybe my personal preference is just not in line with the Harman Curve, but the weird thing is I have an old pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm headphones, and those measure a bit bright but I never minded them. This seems like a contradiction unless something goofy was happening with pads or inserts or something. Or maybe the recording was just that bad? It took forever to load on the slow hotel wi-fi and after trying to get another track going for a couple of minutes I gave up.

If you want to educate yourself to what on average the Harman Curve will sound like, then the best thing to do is buy a few different models of good well respected headphones and then EQ them to Harman Curve using Oratory's EQ's. You'll find that each headphone won't sound exactly the same after EQ but they're likely to vary around a common sound/tonality - so that's the best way of finding out what the Harman Curve sounds like bar actually having a GRAS measurement rig and measuring & EQ'ing your own headphones.

 

[brandall10]

I'm not going to spend $1500 on headphones

The DCA Stealths are $4000 headphones, just in case you posted to the wrong thread.

 

[solderdude]

For $ 1500.- one can get a HIFIMAN headphone that has the word 'stealth' on the box and some people even refer to these as 'stealth'.
These headphones in general have some sharpness to it (8-10kHz region) that is not shown on specific and popular industry standard test fixtures so is not shown (at the actual levels).

So there is indeed a chance @woofersus did not listen the the DCA stealth (or remembered the price incorrectly) but to a HIFIMAN and remembered the price correctly but not the manufacturers name.

One look at the picture of the DCA Stealth (in post #1) should clear that up.

 

[MRC01]

I had a chance to try these out at Pacific Audio Fest on a Qobuz demo. The song was something by John Mayer. (I don't remember exactly which, but I was familiar with it) I know he has a bit of a nasally voice which may have exaggerated things a little, but during the intro with the guitar I was impressed, but when he started singing holy cow was it crispy. There was a ton of extra energy above maybe 5-6Khz such that the voice stood out sharply above the rest of the music and was fairly sibilant. ...

It could be the recording. Sadly, squashing the dynamics and boosting the presence region is common especially with modern / pop / rock music. Not so much with classical, and to a lesser extent with jazz.

BTW, the Harman curve (and most headphones in general), sounds too bright to me. And too much bass. Like somebody EQed into a V shaped curve with a bit of midrange suck-out.

PS the way the Stealth uses a shaped insert to adjust the frequency response, suggests the possibility to fabricate that insert in slightly different shapes to suit different listeners personal HRTF and preferences.

 

[PeteL]

It could be the recording. Sadly, squashing the dynamics and boosting the presence region is common especially with modern / pop / rock music. Not so much with classical, and to a lesser extent with jazz.

BTW, the Harman curve (and most headphones in general), sounds too bright to me. And too much bass. Like somebody EQed into a V shaped curve with a bit of midrange suck-out.

PS the way the Stealth uses a shaped insert to adjust the frequency response, suggests the possibility to fabricate that insert in slightly different shapes to suit different listeners personal HRTF and preferences.

Possibility to fabricate it? yes maybe but they are metamaterials as a start and I would assume quite high precision/low tolerance to achieve the proper resonance characteristics and right frequency shaping. I would assume not something your affordable 3D printer will do. Now fabricating it is one thing, engineering it is a whole other ball game.

 

[IAtaman]

BTW, the Harman curve (and most headphones in general), sounds too bright to me. And too much bass. Like somebody EQed into a V shaped curve with a bit of midrange suck-out.

What about in-ear headphones and Harman In-Ear target, do you have any experience / opinion about that? I have this pet theory that people who like the treble of OE target tend to dislike IE target and vice versa, hence the question.

 

[MRC01]

What about in-ear headphones and Harman In-Ear target, do you have any experience / opinion about that? I have this pet theory that people who like the treble of OE target tend to dislike IE target and vice versa, hence the question.

I have not tried the in-ear target curve. But most IEMs I've used sound too bright to me, especially Etymotics.

 

[MRC01]

Possibility to fabricate it? yes maybe but they are metamaterials as a start and I would assume quite high precision/low tolerance to achieve the proper resonance characteristics and right frequency shaping. I would assume not something your affordable 3D printer will do. Now fabricating it is one thing, engineering it is a whole other ball game.

It doesn't have to be custom, it could be for example just a small number of pre-engineered options, like Harman, diffuse, or other targets.