DACs that better compensate for noise

[Jimbob54]

Yes, I did test them, not measure them. I just looked at the measurments on this site.

I expected the one that was smoother and that had better timbre, to be harsher in the treble and worse in timbre. That's what I was expecting.

Yet I got the exact opposite when I tested them. So obviously, as logic would tell, I didn't have any positive expectation for the cheaper DAC/amp.

So we can totally leave expectation-bias out of here.

Nope, we are going nowhere here. Look up double blind level matched testing. Look up expectation bias .

 

[100rounddrum]

Did you match the levels?

Yes, I did.

 

[BDWoody]

I expected the one that was smoother and that had better timbre, to be harsher in the treble and worse in timbre. That's what I was expecting.
Yet I got the exact opposite when I tested them. So obviously, as logic would tell, I didn't have any positive expectation for the cheaper DAC/amp.

So we can totally leave expectation-bias out of here.

 

[Jimbob54]

Yes, I did.

How?

 

[100rounddrum]

How?

Through a 1khz tone sweep.

 

[wineandmusic]

Mate- you'd have spent $000 on a metal box if a penguin had told you to. Just hold onto that thought.

You are a joke...and that is far from the truth.

 

[pkane]

Too many clowns, not enough wisdom....just closed minded groupies that think they have all the answers. Pathetic.
To think they can put what God has created in a "bottle".

Let God know that there's something wrong with the DACs he designed: they apparently need better noise compensation. He'll know what to do.

 

[LTig]

Yes, I did test them, not measure them. I just looked at the measurments on this site.

I expected the one that was smoother and that had better timbre, to be harsher in the treble and worse in timbre. That's what I was expecting.

Yet I got the exact opposite when I tested them. So obviously, as logic would tell, I didn't have any positive expectation for the cheaper DAC/amp.

So we can totally leave expectation-bias out of here.

This is not how expectation bias works. It's a subconscious process and cannot be controlled by yourself. Pity but this is how our brains are wired - all of them without exception.

 

[100rounddrum]

This is not how expectation bias works. It's a subconscious process and cannot be controlled by yourself. Pity but this is how our brains are wired - all of them without exception.

To clarify; the unit I thought was worse, I thought was worse in EVERY WAY based on outer appearance AND features.

It was a lot lighter physically, it only had one 3.5mm headphone jack opposed to the 2 headphone jacks on the Microstreamer. It felt cheaper in the hand than the Microstreamer.

It was cheaper in cash, cheaper in EVERYTHING, before I tested it. I thought the Microstreamer would be superior in EVERY WAY of the word.

Yet listening proved differently. How hard can that be to understand?

 

[100rounddrum]

I even level tested them through a 1khz tone. Granted, the Microstreamer was superior in separation of the sounds and did have more focused imaging, but the cheaper unit had a better timbre and smoother treble.

How could this be possible?

 

[Jimbob54]

I even level tested them through a 1khz tone. Granted, the Microstreamer was superior in separation of the sounds and did have more focused imaging, but the cheaper unit had a better timbre and smoother treble.

How could this be possible?

Must be the jitter

 

[100rounddrum]

The more scientific question would be: where in the graphs can you make out the smoother treble and more natural texture of 1 DAC vs another?

 

[Jimbob54]

The more scientific question would be: where in the graphs can you make out the smoother treble and more natural texture of 1 DAC vs another?

No, the better question is why do you believe there was smoother treble and better texture.

 

[wineandmusic]

Let God know that there's something wrong with the DACs he designed: they apparently need better noise compensation. He'll know what to do.

I am talking about the general attitude here, not the "debatable" noise matters. Even though someone conceded that testing of dacs should include how well it compensates for isolation. And I believe upsampling is debatable as well if it is capable of making the analog output "more accurate" and allow for more processing outside of the audible range.

 

[Jimbob54]

I am talking about the general attitude here, not the "debatable" noise matters. Even though someone conceded that testing of dacs should include how well it compensates for isolation. And I believe upsampling is debatable as well if it is capable of making the analog output "more accurate" and allow for more processing outside of the audible range.

You're pretty much just copying and pasting audiophile jargon onto the page now. Occasionally in speech marks.

 

[100rounddrum]

No, the better question is why do you believe there was smoother treble and better texture.

Alright, so there's no possible way of knowing when you get smoother treble and better texture in measurements on 1 DAC vs another, except for THD, SINAD and frequency response?

 

[LTig]

To clarify; the unit I thought was worse, I thought was worse in EVERY WAY based on outer appearance AND features.

It was a lot lighter physically, it only had one 3.5mm headphone jack opposed to the 2 headphone jacks on the Microstreamer. It felt cheaper in the hand than the Microstreamer.

It was cheaper in cash, cheaper in EVERYTHING, before I tested it. I thought the Microstreamer would be superior in EVERY WAY of the word.

Read again what I wrote above.

Yet listening proved differently. How hard can that be to understand?

It's hard to understand that there is a proof without a level matched DBT.

 

[Jimbob54]

Alright, so there's no possible way of knowing when you get smoother treble and better texture in measurements on 1 DAC vs another, except for THD, SINAD and frequency response?

And to reiterate. You are referring to DAC /amps.

 

[Jimbob54]

And to reiterate. You are referring to DAC /amps.

@100rounddrum you did check the output impedance, didn't you? What's the impedance on the headphones you used?

 

[wineandmusic]

Read again what I wrote above.

It's hard to understand that there is a proof without a level matched DBT.

level matched dbt is far from proof of anything.