DAC that can take AES/EBU inputs

[LTig]

Simple Adapters may cause trouble as AES output level is much higher than SPDIF input level.

Look at page 10 of the english user manual of Neumann KH750. It shows the schematics of a simple XLR to BNC adapter. Just use RCA instead of BNC.

 

[linuxfan]

Simple Adapters may cause trouble as AES output level is much higher than SPDIF input level.

If, by "simple", you mean an XLR3-to-2pin adapter cable, then yes, you are certainly correct. That wiring diagram in the Neumann KH 750 manual is a classic example - it's nothing special. Actually the use-case in that manual is for S/PDIF to AES3 - and I see the negative signal is grounded, but Reggiejackson's use-case is AES3-to-S/PDIF, and there's a technical case to lift the ground in that instance.
Either way, using a proper transformer goes one step better, and is the technically correct approach - it matches the signal impedance, provides ground isolation, and I believe the Canare/Neutrik adapters also include a certain level of attenuation, because as you pointed out, an AES3 signal is a higher voltage than consumer S/PDIF.

 

[NTK]

You can find a detailed discussion on interfacing AES3 and S/PDIF in Rane Note 149.

Interfacing AES3 and S/PDIF

Two serial interfaces exist: AES3 for professionals and S/PDIF for consumers. Passive conversion between them is possible, with caution.

www.ranecommercial.com

 

[Roland68]

^
thanks
^^
thanks

That will help me to get the right type.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07D6LN5GJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1P0JKDBJQ43H7&th=1

Is a DMX which I think might be the same as AES?

this with

Amazon.ca

Hopefully that will work at pretty low cost then get a topping 30

My tip from experience is to save money on adapters, converters and the like if there is an affordable device that fits directly. You burn a lot of money and may not have a solution that satisfies you.

The Loxjie D40 (not Pro) is one of the best tested DACs on ASR and costs €310 on Amazon DE with AES/EBU interface. As a return “like new” € 265.00. It's currently $300 on Hi-Fi Express including shipping.

With a little patience, there should also be cheap used devices with the right interface. For example a Gustard X10 or X12, possibly also an X16.

 

[Reggiejackson]

Yes, a simple female XLR to RCA cable will probably work fine, although there's a slight risk of a ground loop, especially in a home recording environment where there may be multiple devices connected.
To play it safe you should use a transformer-based converter. Apart from the Canare product I linked earlier, there's also a model from Neutrik -
https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/naditbnc-fx

Reggiejackson, you need these 3 items -
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/406162-REG/Canare_BCJ_XJ_TRB_BCJ_XJ_TRB_110_Ohm_to.html
https://www.amazon.com/CIMPLE-CO-Cable-Black-Professional/dp/B06XKQRSGT
https://www.toppingaudio.com/product-item/e30-ii-lite

Thanks for the help..

@ Roland thanks also for the DAC suggestions...Even with a AES dac though I still would not be using it as intended as I would be going in from my current DAC into another.. I think my AES outs were intended for AES monitors but they are far too expensive for me.

 

[LTig]

If, by "simple", you mean an XLR3-to-2pin adapter cable, then yes, you are certainly correct. That wiring diagram in the Neumann KH 750 manual is a classic example - it's nothing special. Actually the use-case in that manual is for S/PDIF to AES3 - and I see the negative signal is grounded, [..]

Nope: The use case is AES output to the BNC input of the KH750, which happens to have the same input characteristics as SPDIF inputs. Here is the schematic (screenshot from manual):

But now I would use one of the circuits in the Rane manual mentioned above by @NTK .

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The Canare BCJ-XJ-TRC 110 Ohm to 75 Ohm Digital Audio Impedance Transformer works just fine for me.

​

 

[Roland68]

Thanks for the help..

@ Roland thanks also for the DAC suggestions...Even with a AES dac though I still would not be using it as intended as I would be going in from my current DAC into another.. I think my AES outs were intended for AES monitors but they are far too expensive for me.

What kind of DAC do you have, or which device does the AES in/out cable belong to?

 

[linuxfan]

The Canare BCJ-XJ-TRC 110 Ohm to 75 Ohm Digital Audio Impedance Transformer works just fine for me.

Yes, as one might expect from a highly reputable company such as Canare.
This subject is complicated, and there are variables/exceptions. These are my takeaways;
- yes, there are reports of some equipment such as older Behringer devices being damaged by high level AES3 signals, but I think that modern S/PDIF receiver chips such as the AK411x range will tolerate the higher voltages.
- the Canare and Neutrik impedance transformers have a modest amount of voltage attenuation (1 or 2 volts) due to the 1.21:1 ratio of their transformer.
- one of the options in the Rane document is an impedance transformer in combination with an attenuator circuit, and indeed, Canare offers this configuration in the form of their model BCJ-XJ-A10TRC ... however I recall reports on the web of this padded Canare model failing, when the non-padded Canare model worked fine. Also the BCJ-XJ-A10TRC is pricey, to the point where a fully active converter such as the LA507 or Hosa CDL-313 becomes a more viable option.

 

[Reggiejackson]

What kind of DAC do you have, or which device does the AES in/out cable belong to?

SERAPH AD2 – MARIAN GmbH

www.marian.de

Marian seraph AD2

 

[Roland68]

SERAPH AD2 – MARIAN GmbH

www.marian.de

Marian seraph AD2

Why don’t you use the analog XLR outputs of the SERAPH AD2 to connect your speakers?

 

[Reggiejackson]

I do! What I want though is to have separate channels each going to a different set of speakers. To clarify I want my Guitar played through amp sims though the SERAPH AD2 to go through one set of speakers and for Music that I'm listening to/playing along with to go through another set of speakers.. I could not figure out a way to do this just using the analog signal.

 

[Roland68]

I do! What I want though is to have separate channels each going to a different set of speakers. To clarify I want my Guitar played through amp sims though the SERAPH AD2 to go through one set of speakers and for Music that I'm listening to/playing along with to go through another set of speakers.. I could not figure out a way to do this just using the analog signal.

You simply have the wrong device.
Take a look at the Scarlett 8i6 [3rd Gen], which is currently being sold out.
6 inputs, 4 balanced outputs, very proven and very popular for guitar recording.

 

[Reggiejackson]

I use my audio interface as a AMP playing live and latency is an issue for me. Meaning I want to use either Thunderbolt or PCI type audio interfaces. I also don't know if having more analog outputs will help me wouldn't they still show up as the same device, meaning I could not separate what audio goes to each set of speakers. I want separate audio coming out of the speakers so I can hear myself better.. IF my pc could accept two sound cards I could do it that way, but I don't know if that can be done?

 

[Roland68]

I use my audio interface as a AMP playing live and latency is an issue for me. Meaning I want to use either Thunderbolt or PCI type audio interfaces. I also don't know if having more analog outputs will help me wouldn't they still show up as the same device, meaning I could not separate what audio goes to each set of speakers. I want separate audio coming out of the speakers so I can hear myself better.. IF my pc could accept two sound cards I could do it that way, but I don't know if that can be done?

You should do this with one device.
The Scarlett 8i6 [3rd Gen] is made for exactly this and you can assign 2 pairs of speakers via the four outputs. If you need more inputs and outputs, Scarlett 18i8 and 18i20.
There are enough reports and experiences about Scarlett [3rd Gen] online, you can also find information about the latencies in different configurations and systems. These devices are very popular because they are cheap, powerful and good.
Thunderbolt is in a different price range.

 

[Reggiejackson]

i'm thinking maybe I can use my ADAT connection to connect to another dac or to expand to more channels?

I guess I don't have ADAT and got it confused with the wordclock input, maybe I can use that as well to connect to another dac??

 

[Reggiejackson]

Talking to the manufacturer of the soundcard I have the wordclock will not do anything for me, but my card does support multicard operation, and that I can use another card and have them both use the same asio driver I assume not losing performance in latency... I just need to find another dac that supports multicard operation

​

 

[Reggiejackson]

Tried my pc chip audio and I can run it at the same time as my PCI audio interface, lol. So I guess I just need a DAC or can use the one already on my pc.

 

[linuxfan]

@Roland68 kudos for helping out with some audio interface expertise. I have only a sketchy knowledge of audio interfaces/multi-track recording, but I see the specifications for the Marian SERAPH AD2 state 2x AES inputs, 2x AES outputs, 2x analogue inputs, 2x analogue outputs, and optionally 2x midi inputs, 2x midi outputs.

So it sounds to me that Reggiejackson is on the right path, and the SERAPH AD2 should be usable:
guitar input routed to the 2x analogue outputs, audio file playback routed to the 2x AES outputs. Routing achieved via DAW software.
No?

 

[Roland68]

@Roland68 kudos for helping out with some audio interface expertise. I have only a sketchy knowledge of audio interfaces/multi-track recording, but I see the specifications for the Marian SERAPH AD2 state 2x AES inputs, 2x AES outputs, 2x analogue inputs, 2x analogue outputs, and optionally 2x midi inputs, 2x midi outputs.

So it sounds to me that Reggiejackson is on the right path, and the SERAPH AD2 should be usable:
guitar input routed to the 2x analogue outputs, audio file playback routed to the 2x AES outputs. Routing achieved via DAW software.
No?

Yes, it should work like that, but it needs the AES DAC for that. With pro audio devices you always have to rely on the software, including routing, to allow what you need. Sometimes you can only try it out, or you can find a report where someone has done exactly that. Also with regards to latrances.

Talking to the manufacturer of the soundcard I have the wordclock will not do anything for me, but my card does support multicard operation, and that I can use another card and have them both use the same asio driver I assume not losing performance in latency... I just need to find another dac that supports multicard operation

​

Tried my pc chip audio and I can run it at the same time as my PCI audio interface, lol. So I guess I just need a DAC or can use the one already on my pc.

Now you have to decide for yourself what works for you.
You can take an AES DAC and connect it to your card. You could take another additional card with DAC and balanced outputs. You can find some cheap used cards on eBay that do this, for example from ESI. But I don't know if the ESI cards work with your system.
If your system also has on-board analog outputs, you can try those too.
You might also find a used SERAPH card or another affordable used solution on eBay.

There are also a few cheap DIY solutions, both for converting analog SE outputs to balanced and for AES DACs, but you would need basic DIY knowledge and would also have to solder a few cables.