DAC Internal or External

[gvl]

Teac support told me UD-701N even can convert PCM signals to 1-bit or multi-bit signals while DSD signals remain unchanged (1-bit), but its expensive!

Interesting. Looks like Teac went all out trying to grab attention of audiophiles with deep pockets with this model.

 

[voodooless]

Interesting. Looks like Teac went all out trying to grab attention of audiophiles with deep pockets with this model.

They sure did. 94 SINAD does not even exceed 16 bit resolution.

 

[snowpix]

Schiit doesn’t do DSD so you’ll need to look at other brands. DSD doesn’t really offer more than hi-res PCM, and unless you have a collection of DSD files already you don’t really need it.

The Bifrost and the Yggdrasil are their multi bit DACs, despite all the claims Schiit makes about multibit DACs superiority they didn’t have a good showing here. It appears the latest top of the line Yggdrasil model fixed some of the issues, but there are DACs at 1/10 of its price that perform better.

Re the Schiit manual:
1. Even if this is true (and probably is) it conveniently sidesteps the issue that a lot of SACD/DSD files are unique masterings of certain recordings, if you want to listen to those then DSD is the way to do it, inaudiable rising HF noise or not.
2. including the ability to process DSD files in a DAC doesn't make it any less optimised for the job of processing PCM files, look at all the best measuring DACs Amir has tested for proof of this.
3. If you want a DAC where DSD is processed as simply as possible, get one with an AKM chip, there is no conversion to PCM. ESS chips apparently do not convert DSD to PCM either, but there is some additional processing to enable volume control with DSD files (fwiw this works very well).

DAC suggestions: any of the D or E series here with balanced ouputs (there's a few): https://www.tpdz.net/dac
or the SMSL stuff: D-6S, DO100, etc etc

I am agree even if considering to DSD is wasting energy but fortunately or not I've bought many of my music collection in DSD file. So I don't think converting them like Schiit wants is a proper way although I don't have time for that! I am totally agree with Vincent Kars that it's just a marketing style of their company.

 

[snowpix]

Re the Schiit manual:
1. Even if this is true (and probably is) it conveniently sidesteps the issue that a lot of SACD/DSD files are unique masterings of certain recordings, if you want to listen to those then DSD is the way to do it, inaudiable rising HF noise or not.
2. including the ability to process DSD files in a DAC doesn't make it any less optimised for the job of processing PCM files, look at all the best measuring DACs Amir has tested for proof of this.
3. If you want a DAC where DSD is processed as simply as possible, get one with an AKM chip, there is no conversion to PCM. ESS chips apparently do not convert DSD to PCM either, but there is some additional processing to enable volume control with DSD files (fwiw this works very well).

DAC suggestions: any of the D or E series here with balanced ouputs (there's a few): https://www.tpdz.net/dac
or the SMSL stuff: D-6S, DO100, etc etc

Thank you for information about difference of AKM and ESS on DSD signals, I didn't know that.
But when Asahi Kasei is not produced chips anymore is it OK to go for them? I mean for support in future or anything.

 

[voodooless]

But when Asahi Kasei is not produced chips anymore is it OK to go for them?

They are producing again. The UD-701N contains neither AKM or ESS though, it’s a custom design.

In any case, if not thermally stressed, semiconductors are very stable and will not easily break.

 

[gvl]

Thank you for information about difference of AKM and ESS on DSD signals, I didn't know that.
But when Asahi Kasei is not produced chips anymore is it OK to go for them? I mean for support in future or anything.

Since you have an integrated amp with volume control look for DACs that allow to employ the DSD-direct feature of the AKM chip. Not that it matters much, but hey why not as without it the chip will convert DSD to PCM internally.

 

[FrantzM]

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping D10 Balanced. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $139. The D10 Balanced as the name implies, comes in my favorite USB DAC package with the same cute orange display: Back panel is where the difference is: Balanced...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Topping D10s USB DAC and Bridge Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D10s USB DAC and S/PDIF plus Toslink bridge. It was kindly sent to me by the company for testing. The D10s has a retail cost of US $99. Let me start by confessing that the original D10 was one of my favorites with its cute orange...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I am with @Count Arthur the Topping D10b (balanced)will set you back about $125 and provide you with the highest level of Digital to Analog Conversion. You can always hide it in the back if you don’t like its looks.
There is no need to spend $500 for the DAC, those from Teac or Accuphase won’t sound any different, let alone better.

Happy holidays !
Peace.

 

[gvl]

Topping D10b can only be used with true balanced inputs, without sacrificing performance anyway, due to shortcuts made in the design to keep costs down.

 

[JustJones]

The Topping D10b has balanced out but only has USB in not sure if that's a problem or not and does DSD and no volume control in the way. It also draws power from USB. The E50 does DSD through USB but has digital in as well and volume control. For a simple hide away DAC with balanced and DSD around $125 the D10b should do what you want but the E50 gives more inputs if needed.

 

[PyramidElectric]

The SMSL D-6 has balanced out and uses AKM chips. It does have a volume control, but set this to 100% and it'll work EXACTLY the same as a DAC with no volume control.

 

[gvl]

The SMSL D-6 has balanced out and uses AKM chips. It does have a volume control, but set this to 100% and it'll work EXACTLY the same as a DAC with no volume control.

Does it activate DSD-direct mode at 100% volume when playing DSD? I’m genuinely curious but lazy to research.

 

[PyramidElectric]

Does it activate DSD-direct mode at 100% volume when playing DSD? I’m genuinely curious but lazy to research.

As far as I know (although I only have first hand experience with a Topping E30) AKM based Dacs can only play DSD at 100% volume (i.e. the volume control on the D-6 is only for PCM signal), and yep this is always 'DSD-direct' mode.

 

[voodooless]

As far as I know (although I only have first hand experience with a Topping E30) AKM based Dacs can only play DSD at 100% volume (i.e. the volume control on the D-6 is only for PCM signal), and yep this is always 'DSD-direct' mode.

No, AKM DACs can do volume control on DSD just fine, just not in the DSD direct mode.

In case of the D-6, you’ll need to explicitly enable this mode by setting it to DSD passthrough mode “Prd”. It’s all in the manual.

 

[gvl]

In case of the D-6, you’ll need to explicitly enable this mode by setting it to DSD passthrough mode “Prd”. It’s all in the manual.

So a low-cost DAC with DSD-direct exists, good to know.

 

[snowpix]

They sure did. 94 SINAD does not even exceed 16 bit resolution.

Sorry to ask, do you calculate SINAD by THD?

 

[snowpix]

They are producing again. The UD-701N contains neither AKM or ESS though, it’s a custom design.

In any case, if not thermally stressed, semiconductors are very stable and will not easily break.

Exactly, Teac has started to produce their own chip and they are using it in Esoteric DACs either.

 

[snowpix]

The Topping D10b has balanced out but only has USB in not sure if that's a problem or not and does DSD and no volume control in the way. It also draws power from USB. The E50 does DSD through USB but has digital in as well and volume control. For a simple hide away DAC with balanced and DSD around $125 the D10b should do what you want but the E50 gives more inputs if needed.

If E30 II had XLR balanced output I definitely choose it .

 

[snowpix]

Topping D10b can only be used with true balanced inputs, without sacrificing performance anyway, due to shortcuts made in the design to keep costs down.

The Topping D10b has balanced out but only has USB in not sure if that's a problem or not and does DSD and no volume control in the way. It also draws power from USB. The E50 does DSD through USB but has digital in as well and volume control. For a simple hide away DAC with balanced and DSD around $125 the D10b should do what you want but the E50 gives more inputs if needed.

The SMSL D-6 has balanced out and uses AKM chips. It does have a volume control, but set this to 100% and it'll work EXACTLY the same as a DAC with no volume control.

As far as I know (although I only have first hand experience with a Topping E30) AKM based Dacs can only play DSD at 100% volume (i.e. the volume control on the D-6 is only for PCM signal), and yep this is always 'DSD-direct' mode.

No, AKM DACs can do volume control on DSD just fine, just not in the DSD direct mode.

In case of the D-6, you’ll need to explicitly enable this mode by setting it to DSD passthrough mode “Prd”. It’s all in the manual.

Hey guys thanks a lot for the information, I learned from your posts.

 

[snowpix]

May I ask are there any benefits to have two or more chips instead of one chip in DAC?

 

[voodooless]

Sorry to ask, do you calculate SINAD by THD?

Well yes! SINAD literally means SIgnal to Noise And Distortion. Noise can only make it a bit worse and distortion is by far the biggest contributor in these cases.