Bypassing Yamaha Internal DAC

[bobbyndd1]

Dear members,

My current setup is an Yamaha RN-602 amplifier paired with Q Acoustics 3050i speakers. Amp has inbuild streamer ( mainly used for DLNA playback and Tidal streaming). I have connected my CD player via Coaxial and TV via Optical cables. Unfortunately, this amp does not have a pre-amp out but it has a lineout. I am planning to upgrade my setup one by one starting with a desktop dac ( Fiio K9 AKM version) as my first upgrade, then get a suitable poweramp. Due to budget constraints, this upgrade will take time ( need to save money ). My question is how can I make sure if the internal DAC ( burbrown) on Yamaha is bypassed when I connect it to desktop DAC. Yamaha does not have coax or optical out it has only line out which disables the volume control if I switch to lineout. Does that mean, the AMP is by passing the inbuild DAC already? I really want to keep the Yamaha as long as possible because of the remote control feature and streaming options ( don't want to spend money on a streamer unnecessarily) Please help me with your inputs on this.

( pardon my grammar, English is not my first language)

 

[nemanja_t]

If you use streaming functionality, you are using Yamaha DAC. If you connect external DAC to CD input of Yamaha, and activate Direct mode, it will be using external DAC. What you have thought is not possible. What is about Yamaha DAC that you do not like, so you need external DAC? If you like Yamaha streaming functions, sell what you have, buy R-N800a, it also has pre outs as it is important for you.

 

[bobbyndd1]

Thanks for your inputs @nemanja_t , I feel that the Yamaha RN 602 is not powering my speakers with enough juice ( its 80 watts per channel). When I connected the same speaker to an old NAD amplifier C319, it sounded better and full and even without subwoofer, the bass was tight and full ( I am not a basshead) Yamaha sounds too thin, little bright for me. Hence the decision to move to a power amp. then I realized that I will need a pre-amp since Yamaha has only lineout. Hence the idea of adding a desktop DAC which I thought will also improve my sound quality. I will consider R-N800a in my upgrade plan.

 

[nemanja_t]

I have bought R-N800a, and I am very happy with it. Before I bought it, I had considered second hand C368 with BlueOS module for some 690€. It has same amplifier as here measured C268. If you like NAD, that is one option. For me, NAD is not usable without software, so if something goes wrong, you can not use device, whereas by Yamaha you can use it as “normal” amplifier.
Yes, looking at specs, there is a difference between 602/600 and 803/800. They had to budget all components to get that 600€ price,
so amplifier was also a collateral damage. If you already have DAC, consider A-S701, it is same as 801, 803D, 800a, it was also reviewed here, there is nothing better from mass-market , even from DIY, for that price , considering reliability, warranty and just cool look

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, perhaps have another think about what you are trying to do: to improve your sound.

You have been a member long enough to know that the biggest influence on your sound quality is your speakers and your speakers in your room.

Changing the DAC is very unlikely to make much difference at all. Changing your Amp might not make much difference either (do you find you can't play loud enough, or do you hear noise or distortion?).

Upgrading your speakers will be a bit more expensive though, so perhaps that's something to save for.

How about a WiiM Pro Plus? Very good DAC, good inputs (for the CD) and a very good streamer.
The reason for suggesting that is for the WiiMs room correction and PEQ - that could make a very big difference.
I've heard decent things about your speakers, but usually also with the comment that they need EQ.

Think about it.

 

[Beave]

Thanks for your inputs @nemanja_t , I feel that the Yamaha RN 602 is not powering my speakers with enough juice ( its 80 watts per channel). When I connected the same speaker to an old NAD amplifier C319, it sounded better and full and even without subwoofer, the bass was tight and full ( I am not a basshead) Yamaha sounds too thin, little bright for me. Hence the decision to move to a power amp. then I realized that I will need a pre-amp since Yamaha has only lineout. Hence the idea of adding a desktop DAC which I thought will also improve my sound quality. I will consider R-N800a in my upgrade plan.

Did you compare the Yamaha and NAD with levels precisely matched? Were you able to switch quickly between the two (and with levels precisely matched)? And did you attempt to blind yourself so that you didn't know which was which?

If you didn't do these things, it's quite likely that the differences you heard were not due to actual changes in the sound but instead were due to cognitive changes in your brain affecting what you think you heard.

 

[linuxfan]

how can I make sure if the internal DAC (Burr-Brown) on Yamaha is bypassed when I connect it to desktop DAC?

You can't. Your Yamaha R-N602's inbuilt streamer does not have any form of digital output.

When I connected the same speaker to an old NAD amplifier C319, it sounded better

Do you own the NAD 319? If so, great, use it instead of the Yamaha! No need to spend money on a new amplifier! OK, it doesn't have an inbuilt DAC - so buy a good quality base-model DAC such as the Topping E30II - this will give you optical S/PDIF input for your TV, and coaxial input for your CD player.
Now buy a WiiM Mini as streamer. Its inbuilt DAC should be fine, so just connect its analogue outputs to one of the inputs of your NAD.
Total cost $150 + $100 = US$250

 

[bobbyndd1]

Hi, perhaps have another think about what you are trying to do: to improve your sound.

You have been a member long enough to know that the biggest influence on your sound quality is your speakers and your speakers in your room.

Changing the DAC is very unlikely to make much difference at all. Changing your Amp might not make much difference either (do you find you can't play loud enough, or do you hear noise or distortion?).

Upgrading your speakers will be a bit more expensive though, so perhaps that's something to save for.

How about a WiiM Pro Plus? Very good DAC, good inputs (for the CD) and a very good streamer.
The reason for suggesting that is for the WiiMs room correction and PEQ - that could make a very big difference.
I've heard decent things about your speakers, but usually also with the comment that they need EQ.

Think about it.

My current speakers are an upgrade from my previous bookshelf speaker Pioneer BS22LR, so I am not upgrading the speakers anytime soon, maybe 5 years down the line I will go for a 3 way speakers, but now I am content with my current Q Acoustics. I was considering QA as a bright speaker until I connected it to the NAD, the sound was warm and smooth.

Wiim Streamer is in my list if I ditch the current Yamaha's. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[bobbyndd1]

Did you compare the Yamaha and NAD with levels precisely matched? Were you able to switch quickly between the two (and with levels precisely matched)? And did you attempt to blind yourself so that you didn't know which was which?

If you didn't do these things, it's quite likely that the differences you heard were not due to actual changes in the sound but instead were due to cognitive changes in your brain affecting what you think you heard.

No, I didn't do a level match. On my Yamaha, I need to crank up the level to 70% to 80% to make it sing, but on NAD when the volume level is at 9 o clock, my QA speakers are better than Yamaha. Unfortunately I couldn't do a A-B testing as I need to disconnect all the cables and connect it to NAD. Though NAD is 80 watts, it has got a big torroidal transformer which I believe is the reason behind the power output. I maybe wrong here.

 

[bobbyndd1]

You can't. Your Yamaha R-N602's inbuilt streamer does not have any form of digital output.


Do you own the NAD 319? If so, great, use it instead of the Yamaha! No need to spend money on a new amplifier! OK, it doesn't have an inbuilt DAC - so buy a good quality base-model DAC such as the Topping E30II - this will give you optical S/PDIF input for your TV, and coaxial input for your CD player.
Now buy a WiiM Mini as streamer. Its inbuilt DAC should be fine, so just connect its analogue outputs to one of the inputs of your NAD.
Total cost $150 + $100 = US$250

Thanks @linuxfan , this is what I wanted to confirm. Yes, my NAD is out of order and I need to repair it ( this is the second time its out of order). Hence considered moving to a new power amps. I will give my NAD one last try and move to the Wiim + DAC combo which is the cheapest route right now for me.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and inputs. Enjoy the music, cheers!

 

[Beave]

No, I didn't do a level match. On my Yamaha, I need to crank up the level to 70% to 80% to make it sing, but on NAD when the volume level is at 9 o clock, my QA speakers are better than Yamaha. Unfortunately I couldn't do a A-B testing as I need to disconnect all the cables and connect it to NAD. Though NAD is 80 watts, it has got a big torroidal transformer which I believe is the reason behind the power output. I maybe wrong here.

I've had the same experience with NAD gear. It has nothing to do with power or sound quality of the NAD, but rather with how their volume control potentiometer works.

It's like having a car with a really touchy gas pedal - one that goes almost full throttle with the slightest push of the pedal - and thinking that means the engine is powerful.

The NAD's volume control is designed so that it reaches high volume with the volume control at 9 to 10 o'clock. This gives users the impression that it is a powerful amp, but it has nothing to do with the actual amp power.

 

[linuxfan]

my NAD is out of order and I need to repair it (this is the second time its out of order).

Yes, that's the sad thing about old amplifiers; regardless of their quality, they all deteriorate. I have a 1983 Harman Kardon PM660, in desperate need of a complete overhaul including all new capacitors.

A modern equivalent of your NAD 319 might be a Yamaha A-S701, as @nemanja_t suggested ... but it's not cheap at US$800.
It might be worth checking out the recent crop of Chinese Class-D amplifiers - the Aiyima A07 (or Fosi competitor) might not be quite powerful enough for your Q Acoustics speakers, so I suggest a pair of Fosi V3 Mono amplifiers might be ideal - US$270.

 

[dualazmak]

If you already have DAC, consider A-S701, it is same as 801, 803D, 800a, it was also reviewed here, there is nothing better from mass-market , even from DIY, for that price , considering reliability, warranty and just cool look

And if affordable, A-S801, A-S1200, A-S2200, or A-S3200.
I still use A-S3000 which is almost the same as A-S3000 (ref. here); just amazingly excellent functionalities and sound, as well as nice aesthetics.

 

[nemanja_t]

I have seen A-S1200 for as low as 1600€ new, big electronic chains are closing their hi fi departments, as there is no demand, so there are more and more deals on brand names like Yamaha, Rotel etc. I would rather look for something like that, then direct sales manufacturers or DYI. But that is just me.