Crossover upgrade (based on previous thread)

[dennnic]

Having read "Capacitor upgrade in crossover" thread by ctrl, I'm getting curious of whether can one expect any performance improvement out of crossover mods.

I've recently got a pair of old (25 years give or take) Audiovector 5x. An acquaintance of mine is a speaker constructor (for 30+ years) and he proposed me a crossover upgrade. He offered me two options - to refresh my current crossover by replacing caps and resistors, while retaining its original design AND rebuilding a crossover with a different design from scratch, as he said he can squeeze more performance out of existing drivers.

My point is:
1. would a replacement of old caps with a new ones of the same specs bring any improvement to the sound? In other words, have the capacitance of old caps change enough in 25 years so it made an audible difference.
2. how hard really is to manufacture a crossover? In other words, again, what are the chances of someone knowledgeable producing better result (with possible more budget for it) then one from the factory? Having in mind that the speaker used to be their higher quality/top end product back then.

 

[sergeauckland]

Having read "Capacitor upgrade in crossover" thread by ctrl, I'm getting curious of whether can one expect any performance improvement out of crossover mods.

I've recently got a pair of old (25 years give or take) Audiovector 5x. An acquaintance of mine is a speaker constructor (for 30+ years) and he proposed me a crossover upgrade. He offered me two options - to refresh my current crossover by replacing caps and resistors, while retaining its original design AND rebuilding a crossover with a different design from scratch, as he said he can squeeze more performance out of existing drivers.

My point is:
1. would a replacement of old caps with a new ones of the same specs bring any improvement to the sound? In other words, have the capacitance of old caps change enough in 25 years so it made an audible difference.
2. how hard really is to manufacture a crossover? In other words, again, what are the chances of someone knowledgeable producing better result (with possible more budget for it) then one from the factory? Having in mind that the speaker used to be their higher quality/top end product back then.

To answer the two questions:-
1) Possibly yes. If the capacitors had changed value sufficiently (usually by an increase in capacitance), then the crossover frequency will have changed audibly, giving a different sound. Of course that difference might be preferred, but it won't be the same as when new. Replacing the capacitors with the correct value for the design should restore the original sound, provided that the drivers have not degraded.

2) It is possible to redesign the crossover and achieve an improvement. Many vintage loudspeakers were designed by ear (as many are now) in the absence of instrumentation (although now, design by ear is due to perversity, not lack of instrumentation).
Modern measurement methods should eliminate the personal preference of the designer and achieve an objectively better result.

S.

 

[dennnic]

It is possible to redesign the crossover and achieve an improvement. Many vintage loudspeakers were designed by ear (as many are now) in the absence of instrumentation (although now, design by ear is due to perversity, not lack of instrumentation).
Modern measurement methods should eliminate the personal preference of the designer and achieve an objectively better result.
S.

I don't know whether the speakers were tuned by ear or by equipment, but they produce a relatively balanced sound (not too much bass or treble), I'd really like to retain that, more or less. What are those modern methods, is it possible that a crossover design by ear supersedes one by measurement?

 

[q3cpma]

is it possible that a crossover design by ear supersedes one by measurement?

For neutrality? No.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I don't know whether the speakers were tuned by ear or by equipment, but they produce a relatively balanced sound (not too much bass or treble), I'd really like to retain that, more or less. What are those modern methods, is it possible that a crossover design by ear supersedes one by measurement?

A crossover re-design will change the tonality of the speakers. If you're happy with how they sound now, doing a re-design is definitely not risk-free

Whether a design by measurement or by ear will be preferred is a question of taste. Personally, I design by measurement as measurement equipment is far more reliable.

 

[sergeauckland]

I don't know whether the speakers were tuned by ear or by equipment, but they produce a relatively balanced sound (not too much bass or treble), I'd really like to retain that, more or less. What are those modern methods, is it possible that a crossover design by ear supersedes one by measurement?

Designing a passive crossover is pretty easy, as driver performance is available from the manufacturers, and there are any number of circuit simulators that will provide the starting point. Then, even free software like REW together with an inexpensive measuring microphone is capable of outstanding results and the crossover can be tweaked to provide as flat a result as one is prepared to devote time to. There's therefore no excuse as to why loudspeakers can't have a flat response, except that 'boutique' designers want their 'speakers to stand out at demos, which is why we get abortions like Boenicke or Zu.

There is no way on earth that a loudspeaker designed by ear will be objectively better than one done by instrumentation, but one designed by a 'golden ear'ed designer will have a certain caché, and indeed, one may well prefer the sound of something technically flawed, as there's no accounting for personal preferences.

S

 

[dennnic]

Thanks for all the replies. I've decided to do just a capacitor swap and internal wiring replacement. Do you think it could be a DIY project for someone who's never touched speakers before? Whats you opinion of damping upgrades?