Circle of Confusion: Database of Studios and their Monitors

[Sokel]

I pressume that all (pro) studio's have constructed there room treathment such that a more ore less neutral/flat sound is created. If i look to my IMF an Vandersteen speakers they are measured in a anchoric room also flat within 2 a 3 db. Now it's up to the customer how the recording must sound (for instance good in a car or an average house etc etc). Than the perceived sound at home can be good average or worse.

At home I have made the choice to choose a system such that a flat neutral sound can be produced. For that i started years ago with speakers that where build by design phase coherent and measured with in 2 a3 db flat. With the introduction of dsp years later i could corrected the room modes much better. The results is realy good if i play music that is probably neutral recorded they sound the best.

Enclosed measurment (Vandersteen grey) of my mancave. Preferd target curve white. An i used many target curves to get the most transparant result. Flat by far was the (subjective) best IMO

If I were you I would use the neutral button with the declining slope and point it at the 10db mark of the 30Hz.
(is that small monitors?they seem to lack low end)

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I would like to know if anyone here can give some indisputable examples of how the different monitors used in various music studios have "colored" the end result of the audio productions coming out of those specific studios. What obvious traits in sound can be heard in all audio productions made at Abbey Road, Electric Lady Studios, The Village Studios, East West Studios, and Capitol Studios, that can be pinpointed down to their choice of studio monitors?

I think the whole idea of how much bearing the choice of studio monitors has for the end result of audio productions is a preassumption-idea at best. The most important thing is that the audio engineers are familiar with the monitors at hand, and that reference-grade material sounds correct to them on those monitors. If good reference tracks are repeatedly used during the audio production as a target, the audio production being made will end up sounding tonally-wise about the same as the reference track no matter what kind of monitors the studio is using. I would say most studio monitors are in the ballpark of being neutral enough, anyway.

But as already said, I would very much like to hear some examples of how the audio productions from the above-mentioned audio studios have ended up sounding in a specific way due to the choice of their loudspeakers.

I remember someone analyzing some older Tool albums and the speakers used. I think there were hints of the "BBC dip" of the speakers showing in the mix of the album.
I don't remember details, maybe someone finds the post again.

 

[Snarfie]

If I were you I would use the neutral button with the declining slope and point it at the 10db mark of the 30Hz.
(is that small monitors?they seem to lack low end)

No the colum Vandersteen speakers. An the low is straight an deep after dsp. I already did try 10db 30hz not a big difference but still preferd the target curve i use now but that is quite subjective.

 

[Sokel]

No the colum Vandersteen speakers. An the low is straight an deep.View attachment 319200

Then there's something very wrong with the measurement.
There's no way the mid section to be 15db above lows,it should be the opposite,mids declining after the lows.

 

[Snarfie]

Then there's something very wrong with the measurement.
There's no way the mid section to be 15db above lows,it should be the opposite,mids declining after the lows.

Did several measurment with several mic's like UMIK calibrated all showed the same result. An not only me but basicly everybody that listen to the bypass en corrected sound where amazed about the quality difference. Your Welcome to listen if you nearby Holland

 

[Sokel]

Did several measurment with several mic's like UMIK calibrated all showed the same result. An not only me but basicly everybody that listen to the bypass en corrected sound where amazed about the quality difference. Your Welcome to listen if you nearby Holland

I'm not talking about the correction but about the original FR shown.
It's like there's a massive mid-high section and no lows,that would match a cheap PC speaker with a 3" driver for example.
Did you try with REW?
Check all your settings carefully,there's no way Vandersteens measure like that.

Thanks for the invite,I'm sure they'll sound good but I'm far from Holland now.

 

[Snarfie]

I'm not talking about the correction but about the original FR shown.
It's like there's a massive mid-high section and no lows,that would match a cheap PC speaker with a 3" driver for example.
Did you try with REW?
Check all your settings carefully,there's no way Vandersteens measure like that.

Thanks for the invite,I'm sure they'll sound good but I'm far from Holland now.

Can assure you everything is fine with speakers. What i stated before i did measure many speakers in that attic from which around 5 or 6 in size compareble colum speakers basicly with more or less the same result. Do know the attic has a V shape roof that halve the square meters/volume almost. Maby thats the reason for these measurements. For what it's worth the sound without dsp is realy horrible imo with Any speakers. The measurment are imo not a result of the speakers but about the room modes. Could be that the presentation of Mathaudio is a bit of scale/imposed etc

 

[goat76]

I remember someone analyzing some older Tool albums and the speakers used. I think there were hints of the "BBC dip" of the speakers showing in the mix of the album.
I don't remember details, maybe someone finds the post again.

The thing is that it’s not uncommon with elevated energy in that frequency area when it comes to rock music. It's a stretch to think that has anything to do with the monitors used for the production.

 

[GXAlan]

@GXAlan a great thread idea. I have nothing of interest to contribute but I will keep reading with interest.

Just as you discover them, you can post.

I was trying to find a place in Germany and came across

MasterLab, Berlin (Germany)
Dutch & Dutch

I found this.

Andreas Balaskas | Mastering Engineer

Andreas Balaskas's profile on masteringcredits

masteringcredits.com

I don’t recognize anything other than a David Hasselhoff album...

I think you're way overblowing the importance of the monitoring system, engineers can adapt to them very fast by listening to known material doing constant referencing and almost always use alternative monitoring that they know well. The room, placement and EQ are as important if not more and you can't know these. Almost all of them aim at being neutral anyway. You also showed mostly recording studios, most often the albums are not mixed there and at the end it goes to mastering for quality control and further balance change. IMO this is pointless if not confusing

The importance is subject to opinon, but the identities are still nice to look at. It becomes a double standard if I rewrite that statement as

"You're way overblowing the importance of the speakers, audiophiles can adapt to them very fast by listening to known material doing constant referencing and almost always use alternative headphones that they know well. The room, placement and EQ are as imporrtant if not more and you can't know these. Almost all of them aim at being neutral anyway"

I take your point on recording vs. mastering studios and that is a comment made in the first post since some studios do both.

I think this is a useful topic to discuss if only to demonstrate just how non-standardized recording and mixing practices are in real life

+1 that's why it's there. That's why "Circle of Confusion" exists as a topic and rationale for going with a neutral speaker.

 

[GXAlan]

I started looking specifically for mixing studios.

5 Cat Studios, Los Angeles (USA)
Meyer Sound and ATC
This is John Powell (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0694173/) and John Caldwell (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10217021/)

Reference [1]

Paragon Studios, Los Angeles (USA)
Meyer Sound
TV/Movies like Westworld and Amsterdam, previously did music for Livingston Taylor, Kenny Loggins

References [1]

VSOP Studios, Chicago (USA)
Genelec
Ludacris, DMX, Rihanna, Mariah Carey, Beyonce

Reference: [1]

Sputnik Sound, Nashville (USA)
ATC
Phish, Willie Nelson, Martina McBride, The War and Treaty

Reference [1]


Dolby London (UK)
PMC
Training site used purely for education

Reference: StereoNet

Pierce Entertainment, London (UK)
Amphion, Dynaudio
Steve Fitzmaurice did Depeche Mode, Seal, Kylie Minogue, Sing, Alicia Keys, U2, Hikaru Utada.

You can see the big Dynaudio monitors in the past (and older Genelec's) in the 2nd picture. He recently brought in the Amphion's.

Reference: [1][2]

Larrabee Studios, North Hollywood (USA)
Augsberger/TAD, Genelec, Neumann, Meyer Sound
Basically a who's who of popular music

References [1][2]


Freddie Mercury's Home Studio from the 1980's
Electro-Voice
Now available for purchase (auction) via Sotheby's!

Reference [1][2]

 

[Travis]

Victor Studio, Tokyo (Japan)
Genelec (for last 30 years)
The do a lot of Japanese-market music, but in the USA, they're known for popular anime (Macross and Gundam series) and videogames (Final Fantasy series).

Reference: [1][2]


Abbey Road Studios, London (UK)
Bowers and Wilkins
Obviously known for the Beatles, they were also used by Adele, Pink Floyd, U2 and Sting.
View attachment 318911
View attachment 318910
References: [1][2]

Electric Lady Studios, New York (USA)
Custom Augspurger mains, ATC
Adele has recorded here (30) and Taylor Swift was recently seen recording here while doing her Eras tour.

References [1]

The Village Studios, Los Angeles (USA)
Custom, TAD tweeters and drivers
John Legend, John Lennon, Marilyn Mason, Barry Manilow, Lady Gaga, Bob Dylan... pretty much a true mix of every genre

References [1][2]

East West Studios, Los Angeles (USA)
Custom Augspurger with TAD/JBL drivers and custom ATC, though they apparently have a Wilson in the lounge
From Frank Sinatra to R.E.M.

View attachment 318940
References [1][2]


Capitol Studios, Los Angeles (USA)
PMC
John Mayer, Bob Dylan, The Beach Boys, Skrillex

Victor Studio, Tokyo (Japan)
Genelec (for last 30 years)
The do a lot of Japanese-market music, but in the USA, they're known for popular anime (Macross and Gundam series) and videogames (Final Fantasy series).

What are the main speakers

 

[GXAlan]

Victor Studio, Tokyo (Japan)

What are the main speakers

ビクタースタジオ - 30年の伝統と実績を支えるGenelecのリファレンス - ジェネレックジャパン

日本を代表する音楽スタジオであるビクタースタジオ。1940年、東京・築地に開設された同スタジオは、1969年に現在の場所（東京・千駄ヶ谷）に移転し、多くの名盤を生み出してきました。約半世紀にわたり、日本の音楽シーンを牽引してきたスタジオと言っていいでしょう。そんなビクタースタジオは、Genelecのスタジオ・モニターを日本で最初に導入した商用スタジオでもあります。1990年、新しいリファレンス・スピーカーとして導入された1035Aを皮切りに、S30、1031A、1033Aなど、すべての部屋にGenelecのスタジオ・モニターを導入。

www-genelec-jp.translate.goog

It seems like the 8351A is the one they hype up.

But they do have Fostex and others. If you go to discogs, you can find your favorite anime sound track and if it was done at Victor Flair, it will often include the name of the person

FLAIR

FLAIR can deal with everything flexibly. Please consult with us freely about schedule or cost concerns.

victorstudio.jp

To provide examples
Macross Plus and Macross Delta

HIROSHI KAWASAKI ｜ ENGINEERS ｜ FLAIR

victorstudio.jp

Final Fantasy VIII piano collections. House of Flying Daggers,

KAZUSHIGE YAMAZAKI ｜ ENGINEERS ｜ FLAIR

victorstudio.jp

 

[GD Fan]

A lot of these rooms, especially on page one, look pretty suboptimal. But this kind of stands out...:

And I'm talking about the odd placement / alignment, not even remotely the brand of speaker.

 

[sigbergaudio]

A lot of these rooms, especially on page one, look pretty suboptimal. But this kind of stands out...:

View attachment 327044

And I'm talking about the odd placement / alignment, not even remotely the brand of speaker.

I don't remember all 800 series speakers by just looking at them, but is that the 801 Nautilus perhaps? In that case the woofer crosses over at 350hz, and I think the 801s typically have crossovers around the 350-400hz area. In that case I'm not sure this setup is necessarily a huge issue.

 

[holdingpants01]

A lot of these rooms, especially on page one, look pretty suboptimal. But this kind of stands out...:

View attachment 327044

And I'm talking about the odd placement / alignment, not even remotely the brand of speaker.

Those are mainly recording control rooms, not used for mixing or mastering, they can't be optimal as long as the huge recording desks are there but even if someone is still stubborn enough to use one for mixing, one will work around it with use of comparison and referencing. Placement, room and speaker choice is generally irrelevant, ears and mind are the only important factors and humans are constantly adjusting to any given environment. It would be better and more relevant to create database for specific engineers and their outcomes. That being said proper monitoring can save some time and where it's really important is a mastering studio

 

[Matt_Holland]

Enclosed measurment (Vandersteen grey) of my mancave. Preferd target curve white. An i used many target curves to get the most transparant result. Flat by far was (subjective) the best IMO

Interesting EQ. The EQ looks like it’s correcting for baffle step but the average cut about 400Hz is 10dB, so is there a lack of output/directivity in mid/HF?

 

[Snarfie]

Interesting EQ. The EQ looks like it’s correcting for baffle step but the average cut about 400Hz is 10dB, so is there a lack of output/directivity in mid/HF?

Mid high frequency (mid/HF) is now balanced using the flat target curve so there is no lack in output there is for sure less . When using the found/ measured grey frequency curve the mid /HF is dominating such that low frequencies are quite diminished result some sort of mid/HF tormation for your ears. I guess the V shape of my roof is difficult to predict to tame. With DSP specific in this attic it created IMO a level paying field for all frequencies which result in a remarkable balanced sound. For instance Abbey Road bass of McCartney is present clearly seperated from mid/HF. Voice of McCartney is seperated from instruments such you even hear bit of timbre in his voice.

 

[Snarfie]

Interesting EQ. The EQ looks like it’s correcting for baffle step but the average cut about 400Hz is 10dB, so is there a lack of output/directivity in mid/HF?

Mid high frequency (mid/HF) is now balanced using the flat target curve so there is for sure less (dominating) output . When using the found/ measured grey frequency curve the mid /HF is dominating such that low frequencies are quite diminished result some sort of mid/HF tormation for your ears. I guess the V shape of my roof is difficult to predict/tame. With DSP specific in this attic it created IMO a level paying field for all frequencies which result in a remarkable balanced sound. For instance Abbey Road the bass of McCartney is present clearly seperated from mid/HF. Voice of McCartney is seperated from instruments such you even hear bit of timbre in his voice

 

[IamJF]

Placement, room and speaker choice is generally irrelevant, ears and mind are the only important factors and humans are constantly adjusting to any given environment.

It is WAY easier to do the job with a neutral and reliable mixing situation! It frees brain capacity (cause you can easily hear what you need) and saves a lot of time with control hearings.
So it's always the goal to get the control room as good as possible, also for mixing. But there are plenty of goals you have to achieve, it's not a trivial task.

 

[holdingpants01]

It is WAY easier to do the job with a neutral and reliable mixing situation! It frees brain capacity (cause you can easily hear what you need) and saves a lot of time with control hearings.
So it's always the goal to get the control room as good as possible, also for mixing. But there are plenty of goals you have to achieve, it's not a trivial task.

Who say it isn't easier? Neutrality was at least a goal in all of these. None studios shown are really bad, so their monitoring systems influence is close to zero