Chord Huei Phono Preamp Review

[Deleted member 31750]

In terms of overall system performance, the noise and distortion of the mechanical parts is usually much higher. The preamp may not be the bottle neck of the system.

But the preamp of this bad performance will cause audible coloration.

so from your statement of much higher noise from mechanical parts that makes the SNR levels irrelevant. It’s like whispering in a live concert. If for example sound volume is the objective then measuring the whisper is a measurable value but how relevant is it?. Regarding your second point on audible coloration. What do you mean by that and how you can confirm that the coloration is caused by low SNR measurements? how a “whisper” can effect the sound of a “concert”?

 

[solderdude]

Ok, based on what you’ve said that means grove noise is more important in terms of the impact it has in vinyl reproduction. Is that assumption correct? Let’s say buying a well pressed record with wide grooves and low surface noise is more important compared to a phono stage with lower SNR measurements. Would you say this assumption is correct?

It would only be related to noise (which isn't the only aspect) and depends on the noise spectrum as well.

 

[abdo123]

but it did what it says and it was quieter in terms of noise from my previous stage which was the Cambridge audio duo.

was that because of long RCA cables? I'm using the Cambridge Audio duo and it is dead silent. SINAD is just limited by mains hum (50Hz @ -60 dBFS) which is inaudible.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

It would only be related to noise (which isn't the only aspect) and depends on the noise spectrum as well.

Could you please elaborate on your thought? Is the SNR or groove noise the critical factor?

 

[Deleted member 31750]

was that because of long RCA cables? I'm using the Cambridge Audio duo and it is dead silent. SINAD is just limited by mains hum (50Hz @ -60 dBFS) which is inaudible.

1 m cables for both and both connected to RCA. Both units were very good but the CA had 5db higher noise on the mentioned setup.

 

[abdo123]

Groove noise only (needle dropped, no music) with Ortofon 2M Blue and Cambridge Audio Duo.

Needle not dropped, Cambridge Audio duo noise

 

[solderdude]

Could you please elaborate on your thought? Is the SNR or groove noise the critical factor?

It depends on the level and spectrum of the groove noise and level (vinyl itself incl cutting and pressing, arm and TT, output level dependent) and level and spectrum of the RIAA amplifier noise.
The latter also depends on the way RIAA correction is achieved.

 

[JohnYang1997]

so from your statement of much higher noise from mechanical parts that makes the SNR levels irrelevant. It’s like whispering in a live concert. If for example sound volume is the objective then measuring the whisper is a measurable value but how relevant is it?. Regarding your second point on audible coloration. What do you mean by that and how you can confirm that the coloration is caused by low SNR measurements? how a “whisper” can effect the sound of a “concert”?

It's more like talking(groove noise) in a restaurant(preamp noise). The types of noise are different. And both can be audible.
By calculating the noise is over audible threshold we can say it's audible. The noise is likely to be 30-50dBSPL depending on listening level.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

It's more like talking(groove noise) in a restaurant(preamp noise). The types of noise are different. And both can be audible.
By calculating the noise is over audible threshold we can say it's audible. The noise is likely to be 30-50db depending on listening level.

Surely if the groove noise is higher than the noise from the preamp then would that matter? Let’s say you can select a noise level to be 150db but one source of noise only. You Peak groove noise or noise from the preamp?

 

[Deleted member 31750]

Groove noise only (needle dropped, no music) with Ortofon 2M Blue and Cambridge Audio Duo.

View attachment 129302

Needle not dropped, Cambridge Audio duo noise

View attachment 129303

Wow thanks for that. So groove noise looks way more important than noise from the preamp. Do I translate the graphs correctly?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Surely if the groove noise is higher than the noise from the preamp then would that matter? Let’s say you can select a noise level to be 150db but one source of noise only. You Peak groove noise or noise from the preamp?

Usually is not equal to in this case. In this case the preamp is so bad that it's a good 30 times noisier than most other preamps tested. With only 40 something SNR you'd expect audible noise regardless. And yes I would expect the noise of preamp here to be very comparable to the groove noise.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

It depends on the level and spectrum of the groove noise and level (vinyl itself incl cutting and pressing, arm and TT, output level dependent) and level and spectrum of the RIAA amplifier noise.
The latter also depends on the way RIAA correction is achieved.

I understand, or I think I do, what you are saying but you didn’t answer my question.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

Usually is not equal to in this case. In this case the preamp is so bad that it's a good 30 times noisier than most other preamps tested. With only 40 something SNR you'd expect audible noise regardless. And yes I would expect the noise of preamp here to be very comparable to the groove noise.

So you are saying that the groove noise would be in similar level to the preamp noise?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Wow thanks for that. So groove noise looks way more important than noise from the preamp. Do I translate the graphs correctly?

Yes. But that's with the best performing phono preamp measured here. Chord is 46dB more noisy which is 200 times more.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

So far my conclusion from what you all have been saying is that the noise introduced by any phono preamp is lower compared to other sources of noise in the chain. That’s a very interesting discussion which of course will continue, at least from my side since I don’t clearly understand yet the merits.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

Yes. But that's with the best performing phono preamp measured here. Chord is 46dB more noisy which is 200 times more.

Yes but that’s like saying whisper 1 is worst than whisper 2 in a live concert event. Would that be a fair assumption?

 

[Angsty]

Wow, it seems we are going all around the bend here for a fairly straightforward issue. When compared to several other devices, the Huei costs more and performs worse on benchmark tests.

The audibility of the poorer electrical performance is a bit harder to qualify, but we know that the variance exceeds established thresholds of hearing. Humans can be quite resilient to distortions and noise in uncontrolled environments so, as is said, “your mileage may vary”.

If a person likes their Huei, they should just be happy with it and look past he measurements - it won’t harm you. If one is seeking more accuracy in reproduction, there are measurably better options at less cost. But, there is no way to square that because the Huei can be likable that it also must be accurate. And, if you are playing vinyl at all, fidelity to source is not your top objective given today’s options.

It’s really not that hard.

 

[solderdude]

I understand, or I think I do, what you are saying but you didn’t answer my question.

Because of the amount of variables involved there is no yes or no answer.

 

[Deleted member 31750]

Wow, it seems we are going all around the bend here for a fairly straightforward issue. When compared to several other devices, the Huei costs more and performs worse on benchmark tests.

The audibility of the poorer electrical performance is a bit harder to qualify, but we know that the variance exceeds established thresholds of hearing. Humans can be quite resilient to distortions and noise in uncontrolled environments so, as is said, “your mileage may vary”.

If a person likes their Huei, they should just be happy with it and look past he measurements - it won’t harm you. If one is seeking more accuracy in reproduction, there are measurably better options at less cost. But, there is no way to square that because the Huei can be likable that it also must be accurate. And, if you are playing vinyl at all, fidelity to source is not your top objective given today’s options.

It’s really not that hard.

First of all I don’t think is as straightforward as you say. Also I don’t care if the huei is likable. All I want is to understand and learn. Measuring is one thing but translating the measurements is another. So far my conclusion, which of course might be wrong, is that SNR is a measurable value without any real merit. My previous example of two whispers in a loud concert.

 

[abdo123]

Wow thanks for that. So groove noise looks way more important than noise from the preamp. Do I translate the graphs correctly?

in this particular case and with my particular gear yes.

generally if you don't hear anything when the phono stage is turned on (needle not dropped) from where you sit, then your phono stage can't be the limiting factor noise wise.

while the mains leakage i have with the duo bothers my OCD and VU/loudness meters, I don't hear it at all.