Change in Requirement for Posting Items for Sale

[amirm]

Compared to other forums with FS sections, the one here is very quiet anyway. It may be better to simply abandon it altogether, as any FS section is a scammer magnet really. Especially considering we have had member accounts hacked for the purpose of scamming and also since it's more of an international forum that solely local. From my experience FS sections need strict rules and heavy moderation.


JSmith

As noted, the site is getting surprising amount of use given the ad-hoc nature of it. It is specifically gold for selling items that review well as you have access to exactly your target customers.

 

[GWolfman]

@amirm I’d hate to see the community and/or site hampered or earn a bad name due to this activity, so make sure your content comes first and foremost!

Also, and maybe there’s one already, but put a sticky/pinned post in the FS forum with disclaimers and possibly suggestions to avoid scams to help minimize this as much as possible and leave buyers/sellers with clear expectations.

 

[amirm]

Appreciate the thought. There is already text when you enter the subforum:\

"Please note: you must be a Forum Donor to create threads/post items for sale here. This is done to reduce the probability of scams.
NOTE: ASR is in no way associated with anything for sale here. Please do your own due diligence!!"

 

[ROOSKIE]

As a buyer, pay with PayPal (NOT friends and family, but the real version where a transaction fee is involved) and only use a credit card you have good history with
The only way to get scammed as a buyer is to skip Paypal buyer protections and skip credit card protections. If the seller wants that skip the purchase.

As a seller keep your fingers crossed, use the PayPal fee based services, control the shipping service(never use the buyers shipping account) and require a signature.
You can still be scammed, though. It is not possible to avoid some risk as the seller.

I have been contacted by scammers here and it was very obvious. Don't fall for obvious scams, if it sounds to good to be true, it most likely is.

 

[Haskil]

Bravo !

 

[theREALdotnet]

Well, this leaves me in a quandry. I have some new-in-box Revel towers that I was going to sell on ASR for $20.00 so I could make a forum donation.

Is that all it takes to earn the Forum Donor badge, $20? Not much of a deterrent for would-be scammers, methinks.

 

[delta76]

Is that all it takes to earn the Forum Donor badge, $20? Not much of a deterrent for would-be scammers, methinks.

as mentioned above, scammers would really want to be anonymous - i.e. leaving no trace. both having to pay upfront, and having to leave a trace to your Paypal account are strong deterrence. we can't eliminate them completely, no method really can, but that would stop like 99.9% of them.

 

[Hayabusa]

Hello you all.

It seems that we continue to get reports of people getting scammed either privately or by listing gear for sale. We had a rule of having X number of posts before offering items for sale but a) this was not enforced through forum software (no easy way to do that) and b) wasn't enough of a barrier. The proper technical solution is to have an existing class of members that can post items for sale. We chose to make that the Forum Donors. No, we did not do this to make money. We are doing this because we have a level of trust with members who have supported the forum.

In addition to above, some of our special members (such as Technical Experts) have privilege to create threads/post items for sale.

Please note that we do NOT read or see your private messages. If you have doubt and issues with people approaching you in private, please report their messages and then we can take action.

Appreciate your understanding as we work through a proper way to manage this service to membership.

the forum does label us depending on our activity and time on the forum, like "major contributor", "active member", "addicted to fun and learning" etc.
Why can't you use these to estimate a level of thrust?

 

[JSmith]

this was my experience as well.

True, it happens... but then some onus is on the member to think a little too. I mean who in their right mind would buy something from someone who has their first post in a FS section, offering a deal that is a steal? I certainly wouldn't engage with such a member either if I was selling something and they wanted to buy. Also, members can put in their signature the members they have had positive dealings with which can be a good way to build trust.

Anyway, all that said I don't disagree with the decision at all, merely exploring the issue. At least if there is an issue, the forum has a record of the persons details (especially in the case of a legal request for information). The suggestion to remove the FS section was not to disadvantage members, but protect them.

It is specifically gold for selling items that review well as you have access to exactly your target customers.

You could restrict it to reviewed items only? (kidding)


JSmith

 

[Feargal]

I'm not sure about XenForo, but a method I've used in MyBB is the group promotion feature. After X number of posts a user gets promoted to a different group. You can then limit posting on a particular forum to that group (or above).

 

[Grotti]

Good idea but I would like to see it combined with a certain amount of postings (maybe 100 or so), which would set the bar even higher for a potential scammer. The few dollars to become a forum donor are easily spent, when your intention is to cheat someone by a four digit number of bucks.

 

[_thelaughingman]

I have a suggestion, maybe there needs to be some sort of process where a seller and buyer thread is mediated or vetted by a moderator to be legitimate based on their history at ASR. Upping the requirement to be a forum donor is a neat idea, but It may not deter a scammer since $20 to earn a forum donor tag would be inconsequential towards the gains that can be had from a successful scam.

 

[Doodski]

For a scammer to use a credit card there is a traceable path back to that scammer. So them using a credit card to become a forum member is more than just the $20 investment.

 

[eric-c]

Amir can also raise the minimum threshold to be a donor to say $50. If I recall I donated via PayPal. Although not 100% that should be somewhat traceable.

 

[JSmith]

For a scammer to use a credit card there is a traceable path back to that scammer.

Mostly... but not if they use a pre-paid Visa/Mastercard. It's also not too difficult to create a PayPal account with false details, but connected to a valid debit card.


JSmith

 

[MCH]

The only time I have been scammed was via PayPal (not ASR related).
The scammer was using a stolen identity, I even managed to talk with the real owner of that identity. Yes, they knew that someone was using their identity in paypal, no, there is nothing they can do about it, and they didn't care too much about it either, just that from time to time someone would call them very angry.
PayPal on their side was "you wanted to avoid paying our fees, well, that's your problem, next time pay"

My take is that everyone has his share of responsibility here, PayPal for facilitating a way for scammers to scam people if they don't receive their fees (at the end of the day this is positive for them, people start to use it because it is free, and end up paying because they have been scammed. If there was no fraud, nobody would pay), me for trying to outsmart the system (there is no such thing as a service to send money anywhere for free) and the scammer, well, for obvious reasons...

 

[jbattman1016]

I didn't even know there was stuff for sale around here! I now have a new place to browse around.

 

[elliott]

As a buyer, pay with PayPal (NOT friends and family, but the real version where a transaction fee is involved) and only use a credit card you have good history with
The only way to get scammed as a buyer is to skip Paypal buyer protections and skip credit card protections. If the seller wants that skip the purchase.

As a seller keep your fingers crossed, use the PayPal fee based services, control the shipping service(never use the buyers shipping account) and require a signature.
You can still be scammed, though. It is not possible to avoid some risk as the seller.

I have been contacted by scammers here and it was very obvious. Don't fall for obvious scams, if it sounds to good to be true, it most likely is.

This is the way. It should be pinned to the top of the FS section. It has saved me more than once.

 

[Multicore]

Acoustic Guitar Forum has a similar policy and it seems to work. A lot of fancy instruments change hands via those listings.

 

[Robbo99999]

Seems like a policy that makes sense!