Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

[AudioTodd]

If anyone with even my rudimentary knowledge of tube circuits looks at the schematic and is aware of the output transformer choice, they will have zero question that these measurements are correct and that the manufacturer's claim are bogus to put it kindly. Add to that the preposterous claims of repairing output tubes, listening to the room and the 12AT7 being part of the "DC restorer circuit," which is just the biasing arrangement with a fancy name, and there is no conclusion to draw that is in any way favorable to those behind this product.

The truth is right there published along side the lies. That is really astounding - and disheartening as many here have said.

 

[Doodski]

View attachment 184617

Who is that woman in the GIFF?

 

[Gringoaudio1]

I don't but have spent time with one powering Cornwall iv's, JBL L100 C75's and Elysian 4's. It was up against a Luxman 550axii and really held it's own. Sounded great.............

‘Sounded great’ … that says it all. Lots of high end equipment that likely sounds great to the owners has been debunked on ASR. Not for the fact that they don’t sound good, but for the fact that they don’t reproduce accurately. That’s what the site is about. It’s not about subjective judgements which are clouded by how much was spent on a piece to impress themselves and their friends or by the bamboozling of a salesman or the ‘shiny object’ fetish many of us who love audio gear succumb to all too often. The Arcam equipment I’ve bought has been exposed just to be a status symbol and not an accurate piece of equipment. It hurts but I’m a man of science. But I still use it and I like the way it sounds.

 

[Xulonn]

I just don't understand why someone that's been in the business for so long would put a product out like that and intentionally misrepresent it to such an extreme.

I am 80 y/o. I believe that Bob Carver is 77 y/o. At this age, our amplifier chassis are not the only place where screws can loosen.

Although Carver has degrees in physics and electronics, and has come up with some interesting audio innovations, those circuits, AFAIK, have not been widely accepted and used. He is an talented and creative innovator, but not a true pioneer who sets new standards.

In the past decades I owned two Carver components. An M400 Carver Cube "200wpc" amplifier - which went into thermal shutdown in the middle of a party while driving a pair of ADS L810 speakers. (I knew that I should have purchased that Adcom I was considering instead!). The other from Bob's company was a Carver Receiver, which served me well for couple of years.

Bob Carver has a fairly large following of loyal fans in the world of consumer audio. However, I think that is because he is a very talented PR guy as well as an engineer/physicist. Actually I would define him as a hypster - always over-hyping his latest and greatest products, which can be quite good at times, but not always.

The only things going for the Crimson 275 are that it is pretty, the tubes last a long time, and it sounds good in some systems as long as you know in advance that it is the amplifier to which you are listening, e.g. sighted - and not blind - listening.

 

[anmpr1]

I don't but have spent time with one powering Cornwall iv's, JBL L100 C75's and Elysian 4's. It was up against a Luxman 550axii and really held it's own. Sounded great.............

Subjectively I would not doubt it. At least on the JBL and Klipsch, which are fairly sensitive. I am familiar with those, but not the Wharfedale and KEF.

Interestingly, when it comes to 'subjective' wattage', people talk about 'tube' watts v SS watts. The only thing I can say about that is that yesterday one of my Dyna Mk IV EL34 amps (1960 design) went south--I think the rectifier tube shorted. Nice light show. But it'll be next week until I can go to the local Rexall and use their tube tester. I then need a to go to Radio Shack and get some replacement fuses. Can you still do that!

Anyhow, the Dyna is rated at about 30-40 watts (depending). I dug out my old standby, a Yamaha AX-592, which is rated at 100 FTC watts/ch, with plenty of short term reserve current. I hadn't used the Yamaha in a couple of years, and figured it would drive my (original) JBL L100s significantly 'louder' and with a 'beefier' low end, and all that, etc. etc. Actually, the substitution didn't seem to be any more 'powerful' than the Dyna, in moderate listening. If I had to say, I'd say the 'low end' was more 'controlled'. But it's easy to fool oneself.

I suppose that at loud levels, and with not so sensitive loudspeakers, the Dyna might show a lack of huff. So I don't doubt that the little Carver is OK to use with most 'average' sensitivity speakers, at average listening levels. I don't think that's the problem with them. It's the false advertising claims that got this all started.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

At one point in time Harold Hill/Bob Carver could sweep into River City and sell the folks the Crimson 275 and they would thank him for it.
The village is no longer full of idiots…. Or the gullible. ASR in particular is a village of highly knowledgeable folks.
But like in River City we will likely have a fondness and gratitude for the conman … ultimately … for what he has brought to town.
(If you’re wondering WTF I am talking about it’s a reference to the famous old movie The Music Man.)

 

[Cougar]

Thank you, maybe defame is a better word? Anyway, there's just something wrong with all this. Seems like a personal vendetta to me.

I would really like to see Amir and Bob get together since they both live in the same city or close enough to each other to have Bob run down in person and get the info first hand on how this amp is "Supposed" to be tested to get those specs he has in his literature for the Crimson 275. I know everyone is harpping on the small OPT and I also even have questions on this but let Bob show us or Amir how it's done in person. Bob did say about there could be issues where the ground is connected and said to connect at the RCA ground so not to bypass that resistor in the feedback loop. Maybe this could have lead to some Crazy measurements? If I'm correct, I thought saw one of Amir's post about having issue on where to put the ground of the measurement units. The amp did hit around 60W in a burst before the fuse popped and I hope that's not what Bob was basing his wattage claim at. So if those two could get together and have Bob show him how he does it so all this can get cleared up or not, I think this will be best. I do get the concern of the 75watts and if the amp can meet it, so that where I hope Bob would show us how it was done if he thinks it's not being done correctly, but even if it hit 50-55 watts I don't think some would be too upset with this. There are tube amps out there that don't hit their wattage claims but as long as they are close I dont think there will be an issue.

I have also talk with others who actually have/sell this amp and they have had no issue with pushing some not so efficient speakers but it won't do crazy inefficient speakers like those down to 84-85 4 ohm without issues. I don't even think my Bob Latino VTA-120 could do that at loud levels without some issues after a while my Clearfield Continentals 87db. @4 ohms no problems at all or any sign of stressing at loud levels and that was in full range not biamped with crossover.

It does seem personal what has happened to Bob here, same person/s going to other sites and posting this same thing. He did say he would fix any issue/s with the amp and also the grounding on top of that refunds were offered to anyone who wanted to return the amp. There are quite a bit of amps out there with grounding like the Crimson 275 and I dont see anyone saying anything close to what I have seen here about those. If you don't like it, dont buy it, if you have one and are concerend about the safety of it return for correction on ground or refund.

So, I'm really considering picking up a Crimson just to see what it can do in my system. I think my speakers would really be a good test for this amp to see what it can really do in real life situation/s. If I don't like it, I will return it for a refund.

 

[Doodski]

I do get the concern of the 75watts and if the amp can meet it, so that where I hope Bob would show us how it was done if he thinks it's not being done correctly, but even if it hit 50-55 watts I don't think some would be too upset with this. There are tube amps out there that don't hit their wattage claims but as long as they are close I dont think there will be an issue.

Why short change a customer on wattage claims? That's only ~2/3 of the claimed output wattage.

It does seem personal what has happened to Bob here, same person/s going to other sites and posting this same thing.

It's personal providing gear at retail that doesn't not comply to specs and is a safety hazard for electrocution.

 

[PierreV]

Who is that woman in the GIFF?

Ava Gardner I think. (Based on the FR of her eyebrows )

 

[levimax]

So, I'm really considering picking up a Crimson just to see what it can do in my system. I think my speakers would really be a good test for this amp to see what it can really do in real life situation/s. If I don't like it, I will return it for a refund.

There are so many choices of amps at this price or cheaper that objectively perform better in every way so not sure what your motivation is but I'm sure it will sound fine.

 

[Doodski]

Ava Gardner I think. (Based on the FR of her eyebrows )

She certainly won first prize in the bone structure category. Very pretty.

 

[Ralph_Cramden]

Who is that woman in the GIFF?

The beautiful Ava Gardner in "The Killers".

 

[paulbottlehead]

Bob did say about there could be issues where the ground is connected and said to connect at the RCA ground so not to bypass that resistor in the feedback loop. Maybe this could have lead to some Crazy measurements?

This was as dealt with in the first two amps I measured in the first thread, but it keeps getting brought up for some reason. I measured these amps both ways and they are slightly worse when you measure them the way Bob says to.

Do keep in mind that Bob does not dispute any of the measurements done here. There is nothing to get together to figure out because the manufacturer agrees with the objective data presented.

 

[DFW]

I knew I'd be poking the beast when I joined and posted this. It was not a knee jerk reaction as some of you have inferred. I've consumed plenty of info on this topic over the past couple of weeks, have read Carver's response on their website etc etc.

After further review:

I want to see Bob's test results. I want to see a video of a test showing the results. Would not be hard to do and it might clear all this up. If it was my name and product I'd be defending it a lot more than what we've seen so far. How about it Bob?

 

[Cougar]

This was as dealt with in the first two amps I measured in the first thread, but it keeps getting brought up for some reason. I measured these amps both ways and they are slightly worse when you measure them the way Bob says to.

Do keep in mind that Bob does not dispute any of the measurements done here. There is nothing to get together to figure out because the manufacturer agrees with the objective data presented.

Are you the same Paul from Bottlehead Audio?

 

[SIY]

I want to see Bob's test results. I want to see a video of a test showing the results. Would not be hard to do and it might clear all this up. If it was my name and product I'd be defending it a lot more than what we've seen so far. How about it Bob?

Not holding my breath. I mean, I'm delighted you came to that conclusion, but reality is that this amp is not only unsafe, it is physically incapable of meeting the advertised claims. This isn't a measurement issue, it's fundamental physics. So the defense you rightly would like to see will not happen- if it did, it would clearly be faked.

 

[BDWoody]

If it was my name and product I'd be defending it a lot more than what we've seen so far.

Unless your position is basically indefensible, then you'd say as little as possible, and hope it all went away.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I knew I'd be poking the beast when I joined and posted this. It was not a knee jerk reaction as some of you have inferred. I've consumed plenty of info on this topic over the past couple of weeks, have read Carver's response on their website etc etc.

After further review:

I want to see Bob's test results. I want to see a video of a test showing the results. Would not be hard to do and it might clear all this up. If it was my name and product I'd be defending it a lot more than what we've seen so far. How about it Bob?

That's part of the frustration with all of this. We would dearly love it if Bob would post his test regimen and data. But it doesn't happen. That's what's frustrating.

 

[Cougar]

That's part of the frustration with all of this. We would dearly love it if Bob would post his test regimen and data. But it doesn't happen. That's what's frustrating.

This is why I would like to see Bob and Amir hook up and see what's actually going on/measured straight from Bob (Even him show how that small transformer is ok). Not saying it maybe correct but will have the sample of what is actually going on and being done, then there is no doubt. At least give him the chance to show us. If he declinces, then we have our evidences what is really going on. If were me, I would have no problem setting up a test station and going through this to prove my design. I hopefully Bob would not decline to do that but you never know. At least put out an offer to him and lets see what happens.

 

[paulbottlehead]

Are you the same Paul from Bottlehead Audio?

One of the two.