Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

[Blumlein 88]

Guys quit making excuses for Carver. This was a con all the way. Show the big 120 power tubes and claim under-rated 75 wpc and cash in. With his trannies he could he gone with EL34's or even EL84's. The big 120 power tube is to catch your eye as a powerful tube amp. It itsn't.

The difference in price in the output transformers he used and some from the same company rated for 100 watts is about $70 each. For $140 he could have had a transformer that would use the possible power of the tubes. Buying more than 25 would have gotten him a 10 % discount on the cost of them. He probably needed a bigger power supply to do it too so a bit more added there.

Also the red painted finish looks fine to me, but the quality is backyard DIY orange peel finish in the photos.

If it still manages to sound good to people then fine, and I guess if owner's are happy they are the ones that matter. Whether you admit or not or care or not everyone who has one of these got scammed. You've already seen (or can go look) an average old Dynaco Stereo 70 has superior performance as measured by Amir.

 

[Rottmannash]

My brain is still fuzzy... Poll added.

Finally a consensus vote....so far.

 

[mhardy6647]

Didn't the FTC drop that rule about amplifier power ratings? There was another amp that only made about one third rated power recently tested. I'm wondering if these companies are taking advantage of the fact they don't have to abide by the old FTC rule.

Not dropped per se, but altered.
The '1974' regulations that many of us grew up with have, at the least, had the preconditioning torture test curtailed.
I am not at all clear on what the current FTC requirements are -- although they would be expected to apply to this amp, given that it is a two-channel domestic/consumer (i.e., home) hifi component.

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

But at 20Hz? 15kHz?

Hey, Paul.
C4 and C19 caps were missing in both of your Carverfest amps. I see they are included in the factory version.
Can you pop some in your amps and see if makes any difference. No telling why they would be missing in the first place.

 

[Chazz6]

From a user review eleven months ago:

Concerned about the unit’s lack of weight, I called Frank Malitz, Bob Carver’s partner, and who is the current owner of the Bob Carver Corporation, he explained the light weight is due to the proprietary output transformers which actually had a better signal-to-noise ratio due to the nature of the winds, he advised adding more heft was destructive to the soundstage. The other reason he mentioned its lighter weight revolves around the power transformers, all three use a special steel, high-efficiency alloy, due to “magnetostriction”, which forces changes to steel’s molecular structure, which is common in transformers, thus requiring more sophisticated materials if the transformers are intended for high-performance audio use. Frank also explained Bob claims his specifications for the alloy and the winds are unique to this brand resulting in a high-efficiency yet lighter design.
Mr. Malitz claims 90W x 2 within specification, and 130 W at 3% THD which David Manley, founder of VTL, Manley Laboratories,claims is not audible in a tube circuit, but Frank mentioned you can contact him through the Bob Carver website and he’ll send you a white paper on the topic.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/my-review-of-the-bob-carver-crimson-275-tube-amp.3182717/

It appears Bob Carver has no equity in the Bob Carver Corporation. He may well have other monetary and psychological reasons to go along with the carnival barker talk from Frank Malice, excuse me, Malitz.

When it comes to high-fi audio technical matters, I'm nearly ignorant. It would help if people like me were told to read a pamphlet with a title like, "What specs does that component have — and will it meet your needs?" Is there such a writeup?

 

[Travis]

The part that bothers me the most is that I've followed Carver since a friend and I went to Fred's Sound of Music in Portland to compare his Phase Linear 400 to a Mac. During this time, until now, his efforts have been respectable. This amp is so poor it's almost surreal it has Carver's name on it.

Best wishes on your flood Amir. I know the feeling. Still have a submersible pump for a house I haven't lived in since 2004. A dehumidifier might be a good idea once it gets almost dry down there. Best wishes on having normalcy soon.

Sadly, he sold his name. He apparently designed this amp (he has been quoted in the Bob Carver Forum about posts in this forum which you all know about).

Carverfest Amps and how to measure them. A note from Bob. – Carver Stereo Forum

He is no longer part of the company as an owner, I suspect he continues to support the products, like in the Carver Stereo Forum because of contractual obligations and/or continued revenue stream.

What follows is a quote from Frank Malitz over in AK forum (I thought I had seen this earlier in here but there seems to be continued confusion on who owns what). The emphasis in bold is mine, to try and highlight the ownership of the company, and Bob's role. He is essentially a consultant and could be compensated in different ways (per unit, flat fee, percentage of gross, etc.).

BEGIN QUOTE (Frank Malitz)

On December 25, 2015, Bob Carver and I, Frank Malitz, started a new company simply called, The Bob Carver Company, a sole proprietorship owned by Bobby and me plus Jordon Gerber, our junior partner, so to speak (I don't think proprietorships have partners). We had one dealer and very little volume. I deemphasized my rep firm to focus on this endeavor. Bob, of course, was our chief designer but not involved in day-to-day business. Jordon ran this company as far as I was concerned; he got the product built, sourced all the parts, supervised the construction and created the ideal environment for my responsibility which was to establish a network of retailers. I have extensive experience in this area having established, as the original founder, Onkyo USA and the Integra brands, but I segued into independent representation so I could handle many other products and brands at once. I made more money! My profile is not important anyway. Here's the current status of what is now known as, legally, The Bob Carver Corporation.

With Bob getting older, it was time for him to focus on what he loved-- his family, his hobby, and designing audio gear. So I recruited EJ Sarmento of Wyred 4 Sound and we bought the rights to the brand keeping Bob as our chief designer-- effective January 2020 . I demoted myself (thankfully) from CEO to VP so I could no longer worry about logistics or paying the bills. Instead, I could focus on product development and building the dealer network as well as dealing with the public directly, something I love dearly. We closed our facilities in Washington state, moving everything to my office in the Chicago area and to our new factory in central California.

END QUOTE

This is consistent with the Washington Sec. of State filings which show that the corporation was "administratively dissolved"

 

[GeekyBastard]

This thing got “$2750 of SCAM” written all over it.

 

[TunaBug]

The word continuous doesn't appear in the Crimson 275's power rating -- but it's also not in the power rating specs for many current components from reputable manufacturers. I was a little surprised to do a little googlin' and discover the latter.

Carver Crimson 275 Measurements

I'm on day 11 of waiting for my 275 to arrive. Hopefully FedEx hasn't lost it!

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here's an example. This is the spec for another amp called "275", from another US-based manufacturer (Binghamton, NY).
To their credit -- no trace of the wily, elusive RMS Watt -- but no "continuous" Watts, either.
I presume these watts could all be continuous, though...

View attachment 179335

Well if we're playing that game, it also doesn't explicitly state that the FR and the power and the distortion numbers are supposed to be delivered at the same time.

Caveat Emptor, and be grateful that somebody does measurements without being funded by advertisers.

 

[paulbottlehead]

Hey, Paul.
C4 and C19 caps were missing in both of your Carverfest amps. I see they are included in the factory version.
Can you pop some in your amps and see if makes any difference. No telling why they would be missing in the first place.

It's interesting you mention this. These are cathode bypass caps for the first amplification stage. They aren't present in the schematic (which I found odd), but there does appear to be something soldered in there in the production amp. I will have to measure one of those caps when I pick the amp up from Amir (or maybe I can use my borescope to look at it) and populate those on one of the Carverfest amps.

That lack of a bypass cap would influence (in a negative way) the functionality of the feedback network.

 

[lewdish]

Since tube's are so subjective why aren't there more companies using the nutube triode tubes yet? They seem much more easier to integrate and you still get a similar measuring (and sounding I assume) product. Plus they're seemingly affordable.

 

[paulbottlehead]

The nutube is a cool idea but they are not easy to integrate, nor are they particularly easy to use. You'll note that Pete's design has a fet buffer to drive the nutube and a fet buffer after the nutube to help drive whatever cables and amp it's connected to.

 

[Labjr]

I don't think Wired 4 Sound is doing anything especially groundbreaking. Their DAC's were popular until Chinese companies showed everyone how to properly design digital stuff. Schiit and Hypex are taking the rest of their business. I don't think the old brands can rest on their laurels. Especially since there are reviewers revealing the truth.

 

[Travis]

Didn't the FTC drop that rule about amplifier power ratings? There was another amp that only made about one third rated power recently tested. I'm wondering if these companies are taking advantage of the fact they don't have to abide by the old FTC rule.

No, they retained it in 2010. It is 16 CFR Part 432. The only exemption is for amps rated two watts or under. If you put a spec on it, it needs to hit the spec by the method the FTC specifies.

In order for the FTC to take action, there has to be a report by someone. Back in the 70s, when the rule came out in '74, the manufacturers would turn each other in for padding the specs. These days, who knows.

When the amplifier rule came up for review in 2010 there was talk about some new criteria for multi-channel (HT amps, AVRs) but rather than changing the manner and methods, they decided to provide "clarification guidance" to manufacturers.

 

[Sal1950]

Nowadays beginning audiophiles who don't stumble upon this site have to learn about the basics of audio the same way I had to learn the basics of sex; in the gutter

But when it comes to sex, that's the best way. LOL
Yes, the 275 is a scam, but isn't that what we leaarn here daily about 80% of the industry?
Scan thru the manufacturers index of TAS or Stereophile and look at the listing of names that have been the cornerstones of High End Audio for decades, what do you see thats different. The only thing I see is Carver is offering a real dog for a fairly low cost. The others are offering gear that costs more than most folks houses that may or may not offer decent measurable performance, casework worth more than the internals and claims of ever more improved sound that is almost 100% bull shit.
Just a somewhat different 3 card monty.

 

[bkatbamna]

I was about to pull the trigger based on how solid state amps made by the Carver company measured and sounded. I'm glad I didn't.

 

[617]

.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I was about to pull the trigger based on how solid state amps made by the Carver company measured and sounded. I'm glad I didn't.

Maybe you could send 1% of your savings to Amir to fund ASR.

 

[Jim Shaw]

Having grown up in the era of tubes (it was all we had), and having to design tube-based equipment, I'll be happy if I never see another tube.
In my home, I have two vacuum tubes left in service: both are magnetrons... in microwave ovens.

Tube amplifiers are like steam engines: nostalgic to watch and everybody oughta ride on a steam train... once.
Just don't yearn to take one home with you.

 

[jhaider]

The only thing I see is Carver is offering a real dog for a fairly low cost.

How is a $2500 2-channel amp low cost? $250, ok because it glows and stuff? But $2500 will buy a very good complete 2 channel system. For example, pair of JBL 705P’s, budget speaker stands, a used AirPort Express or the new Belkin AirPlay device, a suitable DAC, and all the cabling.

Makes the “for rich folk” Dirac Live Bass Control seem like a huge bargain at $500!

 

[enricoclaudio]

Glad to see you back, @amirm . About the Carver amp review, nothing much to say. It’s a tube amp so was expecting this kind of results. However, as a Carver amp owner (solid state as well) I feel kinda disappointed but still love my TFM- 45 and its cool VU meters