Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

[Sal1950]

What disappointing performance in the extreme. By modern standards tube amps are expected to be way below
the SOTA but this one has fallen down in ways that they should find embarrassing enough to withdraw from the market.
I'm red in the face for making recomending them to a member here recently, I never dreamed they could be this bad.
My VTL amps from 1990 makes a monkey out of these.

Over the last 6 decades Bob Carver has given me a number of really good units and a lot of laughs.
The Carver Challenge at Stereophile is legend if for nothing else than it's "fun factor" to read and all the rest.
@amirm are you sending the review to Carver for comment? I know you sometimes do that and I would love to hear what they have to say about this epic failure.
Just a damn shame IMHO

 

[Zackthedog]

Well my point is it seems to drive them quite well. I haven't had issues running these speakers in my current setup. I've also run a pair of Sony APM-22ES and a pair of JBL Studio 530. All of them do great off the Crimson. Audible improvement over my Schiit Ragnarok 1 (although I mainly got the Ragnarok for headphones). I probably can't reach 15 watts near-field, however, so take this all with a grain of salt.

Silver

Your speakers are nominal 8 ohms, and thus hit the 275 is a better place for power output, if the test is any indication. They're also small and only go down to 45Hz. So they're probably a pretty easy load for the Carver.

 

[warnerwh]

The part that bothers me the most is that I've followed Carver since a friend and I went to Fred's Sound of Music in Portland to compare his Phase Linear 400 to a Mac. During this time, until now, his efforts have been respectable. This amp is so poor it's almost surreal it has Carver's name on it.

Best wishes on your flood Amir. I know the feeling. Still have a submersible pump for a house I haven't lived in since 2004. A dehumidifier might be a good idea once it gets almost dry down there. Best wishes on having normalcy soon.

 

[Zackthedog]

Who/what is the current "Bob Carver Corporation"? I'm under the impression that Bob Carver is no longer involved. Trying to throw the guy a bone here...I wonder if he designed a competent amp but failed in who to trust to manufacture and market it?

I've said this in another forum, but I'll repeat it here. IMO, this was a "concept" amp. The design itself isn't sloppy (even if the build is). Take a small OPT, use a hefty amount of compensation and a few technical tricks, run the tubes cool, cool, cool, get some good peak power in the midrange, and maybe some harmonic doubling (or something like that) in the lows. 15 watts continuous suffices for a lot of people.

We have ample testimony that people *like* the way it sounds and it seems to work well enough in their systems. Maybe they overpaid, maybe the amp is oversold in terms of power output--but it is what it is. I imagine people who really need a lot of continuous power will think twice before purchasing--if they're even aware of the measurements, that is.

ETA: I guess it turned out to be more of an Edsel than a Cobra, but hell, a lot of people liked their Edsels!

 

[silverbot01]

Your speakers are nominal 8 ohms, and thus hit the 275 is a better place for power output, if the test is any indication. They're also small and only go down to 45Hz. So they're probably a pretty easy load for the Carver.

No matter what, I will say this, the results sound quite amazing. I spend more time listening to music off speakers lately thanks to that amplifier. My headphones are getting way less use these days.

Silver

 

[Zackthedog]

No matter what, I will say this, the results sound quite amazing. I spend more time listening to music off speakers lately thanks to that amplifier. My headphones are getting way less use these days.

Silver

Then you got your money's worth.

I don't think anyone's saying the amp *can't* work--it may be doing some interesting things onto a relatively benign reactive load. But the sketchy claims of power output aren't too cool.

 

[amirm]

@amirm are you sending the review to Carver for comment? I know you sometimes do that and I would love to hear what they have to say about this epic failure.

I only do that with companies that I have a contact with which is not the case here.

 

[amirm]

Best wishes on your flood Amir. I know the feeling. Still have a submersible pump for a house I haven't lived in since 2004. A dehumidifier might be a good idea once it gets almost dry down there. Best wishes on having normalcy soon.

Thanks a bunch. Have had a dehumidifier running from early on. There were next to impossible to find. Lead times from Amazon have extended to a week and no store locally had more to buy. This morning, Home Depot got a fresh stock of them so I garbed another which is running now. Didn't realize how useful they are in combination with a blower. The two work in tandem to extract moisture even when we are sleeping! I am still sucking the water out with the carpet cleaner but this is a great agument.

 

[silverbot01]

Then you got your money's worth.

I don't think anyone's saying the amp *can't* work--it may be doing some interesting things onto a relatively benign reactive load. But the sketchy claims of power output aren't too cool.

I got a really good price too as I bought it second hand. Being serial number 3 is really cool too. And Jim Clark is highly reputable as a dealer. When one of my KT120s started having issues he sent me a pair of new ones. I'm not even the first owner. I feel like I'm getting the "dealer experience" here.

Silver

 

[AudiOhm]

I am confused on the AC at the inlet also, 3 prong with no ground.

The Hot feeds a switch and the Neutral feeds a fuse???

I am from Canada, CSA will not allow a fused neutral, I am sure UL is the same.

This design is for CE 240Vac/50hz, but the label on the outside indicates 50/60Hz,

and am sure it was tested on 120Vac/60Hz.

Is this a Chinese knockoff?

Ohms

 

[Aperiodic]

Cashing in on the tube fetish and his name. More grossly overpriced caca from the 'deep end'.

Edit/ Further thoughts after re-reading the report:

• The inexcusably glued-in meter is a trouble spot waiting to happen. Tube power amps run very hot. Not good for glue. Hopefully they used something rated for automotive use.
• It was late and I was tired when I read the review last night and just noticed that the amp lacks taps for different speaker impedances. 16Ω speakers are rare these days but 4Ω aren't that unusual. The lack of separate taps explains why the measurements for 4Ω suck even worse than the ones for 8Ω (impedance mismatch). FR variance is due to high output impedance common in tube amps.
• Like Amir, I would not want the combination of internal voltages that are lethal and poor grounding practices. These two are disqualifying in and of themselves.

This amp is clearly designed mainly to be looked at.

 

[Zackthedog]

I got a really good price too as I bought it second hand. Being serial number 3 is really cool too. And Jim Clark is highly reputable as a dealer. When one of my KT120s started having issues he sent me a pair of new ones. I'm not even the first owner. I feel like I'm getting the "dealer experience" here.

Silver

I'm glad you've had a good experience--I really am! I doubt many people are going to dump their Crimsons as a result of this whole thing--but they should know what they are getting!

I use a pair of homebrew monoblocks based on a classic Williamson amplifier with vintage transformers. I love it, and more importantly, my wife likes it. ;-) I'm well aware of it's limits--22wpc in the midband and 18 or less at the frequency extremes, but it works fine for me. But by the same token, I worked *hard* to get those amps to perform well. I learned to use an oscilloscope and take the proper measurements to ensure stability and proper operation. So it kinds of bugs me (and I'm sure it really bugs a lot of smaller manufacturers) that Frank and Bob toss out these wild figures with absolutely no documentation to back up their claims.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

If Carver would have dropped the word continuous from the power rating they're probably wouldn't be this problem.

 

[mhardy6647]

If Carver would have dropped the word continuous from the power rating they're probably wouldn't be this problem.

The word continuous doesn't appear in the Crimson 275's power rating -- but it's also not in the power rating specs for many current components from reputable manufacturers. I was a little surprised to do a little googlin' and discover the latter.

Carver Crimson 275 Measurements

I'm on day 11 of waiting for my 275 to arrive. Hopefully FedEx hasn't lost it!

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here's an example. This is the spec for another amp called "275", from another US-based manufacturer (Binghamton, NY).
To their credit -- no trace of the wily, elusive RMS Watt -- but no "continuous" Watts, either.
I presume these watts could all be continuous, though...

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

The word continuous doesn't appear in the Crimson 275's power rating -- but it's also not in the power rating specs for many current components from reputable manufacturers. I was a little surprised to do a little googlin' and discover the latter.

Carver Crimson 275 Measurements

I'm on day 11 of waiting for my 275 to arrive. Hopefully FedEx hasn't lost it!

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here's an example. This is the spec for another amp called "275", from another US-based manufacturer (Binghamton, NY).
To their credit -- no trace of the wily, elusive RMS Watt -- but no "continuous" Watts, either.
I presume these watts could all be continuous, though...

View attachment 179335

I seem to remember them using the word 75 watts continuous or something like that. Oh well.

 

[Tom C]

Dang! So late to the party. Had to work today.

 

[paulbottlehead]

Is this a Chinese knockoff?

That's what they said about the first two I tested, so I bought a third from an authorized dealer and left it sealed in the shipping box for Amir to open.

So no, it's not a knock-off.

 

[paulbottlehead]

If Carver would have dropped the word continuous from the power rating they're probably wouldn't be this problem.

But at 20Hz? 15kHz?

 

[TriodeLuvr]

The procedure for rating amplifier power is well defined by the FTC. It doesn't matter whether the published spec sheet refers to continuous or RMS.

 

[warnerwh]

Didn't the FTC drop that rule about amplifier power ratings? There was another amp that only made about one third rated power recently tested. I'm wondering if these companies are taking advantage of the fact they don't have to abide by the old FTC rule.