Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Robin L]

No doubt. But I guessed from his wording that AaronJ was talking about the pop and rock phenomenon that took off in the 60s and extended into the 70s, becoming the totally dominant sales force for records (and cassettes).

The LPs (of the music I was talking about, and I think AaronJ too) were bought by the same people as bought the 45s. Huge numbers of them were school kids. Industry execs could not afford to assume they were avoiding terrible record players. The weakest link sets the specification.

That's a very small subsection. You are focusing on the elite. I'm focusing on the industry.

Again, we are talking about personal standards, mixed with selective examples.

I suggest the reason some of those artists you mentioned are so prevalent in off-the-top-of-the-head lists of good-sounding recordings of the day, and so dominated sales of remasters over the years, is precisely because they are the exception, not the norm.

Industry execs and fast-track-production-line sound engineers of the day generally had to cater to the weakest link, especially since the weakest link (bad record players) was going to be one of the most-used.

I grew up in the timeframe being discussed, and my dad's record player, not the kid's bedroom player but the living room player, that played the Beethoven, Mozart, Mantovani, and my my more modern LPs, was a frikkin console unit. It had speed settings of 16, 33, 45 and 78. It had a 5-inch tall spindle with a stacker section. Its tonearm/headshell unit was bakelite. I can only imagine with a shudder what the needle was. And it was less than 10 years old.

And when he replaced it in the early 70s with what would have been a very respectable budget hifi system of separate full-size components, the belt-drive TT and Sansui tonearm were complemented with the stock cartridge, that didn't even have a brand written on it. Probably the cheapest thing imaginable.

These are the norms. The industry knew that. The product fitted that.

cheers

This relates to the well-known tale of the first cut of Led Zepplin II being too hard to track on the cheap record player of daughter of the record exec of the company producing it, resulting in a recut that had less intense bass. This sort of thing is a pretty powerful argument for digital formats, which don't have these sorts of issues in the bottom octaves.

 

[MattHooper]

I also grew up in the 60's and 70's and I have a different take. The AM pop stations played the super hot and short 45 versions of hit songs and the FM underground/ album rock stations played the longer and higher quality LP versions. Back in the 70's many FM stations broadcast fairly hi-fi signals and there were a lot of decent "receivers" and large Monkey Coffin speakers around that sounded OK together. The TT's the radio stations had were good by any standard. I think many prople listening to current satilite radio or the new digital FM stations would be surprised by how good FM could sound back in the day. FM was how a most higher quality music was listened to and the stations wanted good sounding recordings to play. There was also much more enthusiasm for ever better sound quality in a way that doesn't exist today and most artist and record companies were looking to stand out not just by being the loudest but also the best sounding. I would argue LP's in general were not compromised sonically for lower quality plaback gear except that was the job of the 45's.

That tracks with my experience growing up. We had a great stereo system and most of my friends cared about having a good system. FM was the gold standard for broadcast quality, and there were tons of records we'd all play to experience great sound, from Floyd, to Earth Wind and Fire, Little River Band, Queen, to jazz fusion like Spyro Gyra, Chuck Mangione. We definitely cared about sound quality and there were tons of albums that sounded great on decent systems.

 

[Newman]

Yeah, we all had our fun.

But, just like our standards were irrelevant to the industry’s decision to master for the loudness wars, we were also irrelevant to the priorities of the industry in the 60s and 70s.

The idea that they were producing great sound on LP for the DJs to play on great TTs into great FM radio, is basically an argument that the loudness wars couldn’t happen. But they did. You are just not being realistic. Reality is that a great deal of that FM radio was going to be heard in cars that had a lot more interior noise than today, often with the windows down while cruising about, some even with the top down. Industry knew that 100%.

Someone sitting at home, in a nice quiet room with a stunning hifi? Come on, irrelevant! Contrastingly, the risk that everyone playing the hits on the car radio couldn’t hear half the instruments and rhythms and backing vocals…now that’s a major issue! They weren’t going to let that happen.

 

[MattHooper]

It's funny how we all have our individual tolerances. Here I am all happy and fine with the demands of playing records, yet there's been an upswing in the niche popularity of Reel To Reel in the audiophile world, and to me that medium would be utterly intolerable. I couldn't imagine a more off-putting medium...from the hassle of putting on the tape (I don't like tape!) itself, the finickiness, the price of decent tapes and the lack of content. Yuck.

 

[Newman]

Tomayto, tomahto, tolerances, standards….

 

[Robin L]

Yeah, we all had our fun.

But, just like our standards were irrelevant to the loudness wars, we were also irrelvant to the priorities of the industry in the 60s and 70s.

The idea that they were producing great sound on LP for the DJs to play on great TTs into great FM radio, is basically an argument that the loudness wars couldn’t happen. But they did. You are just not being realistic. Reality is that a great deal of that FM radio was going to be heard in cars that had a lot more interior noise than today, often with the windows down while cruising about, some even with the top down. Industry knew that 100%.

Someone sitting at home, in a nice quiet room with a stunning hifi? Come on, irrelevant! Contrastingly, the risk that everyone playing the hits on the car radio couldn’t hear half the instruments and rhythms and backing vocals…now that’s a major issue! They weren’t going to let that happen.

My memories of early FM were that when it started, it was for radios and other types of audio gear intended for in-home use. So, there wasn't the sort of loudness wars going on when FM radio became standard in cars. Initially there was a big uptick in sound quality with FM. That went away rapidly and by the time the '80s rolled along, it was over. By then the point was to get as much range as possible on the highway. Now, of course, FM isn't an issue at all, realistically speaking. The streams one can get on the internet will beat any FM broadcast. But commercial outlets will still squash dynamics because most users will be playing back music in noisy environments.

 

[MattHooper]

My memories of early FM were that when it started, it was for radios and other types of audio gear intended for in-home use. So, there wasn't the sort of loudness wars going on when FM radio became standard in cars. Initially there was a big uptick in sound quality with FM. That went away rapidly and by the time the '80s rolled along, it was over. By then the point was to get as much range as possible on the highway. Now, of course, FM isn't an issue at all, realistically speaking. The streams one can get on the internet will beat any FM broadcast. But commercial outlets will still squash dynamics because most users will be playing back music in noisy environments.

Rant

Reminds me: I will never forgive Volkswagen or syriusXM. That damned streaming station came hard programmed in to our VW car's radio bands, a month or so free, and then (after we didn't use it at all) it went blank with just a pop up advertisement to become a paid member to use the service. Well, we didn't want to use the service. But syriusXM can't be removed from the radio bands! So now instead of just being able to toggle between AM and FM or whatever, we have to toggle through that damned useless advertisement. Every. Time. Volkswagen says they can't do a thing, and that others complain too.

/Rant

 

[Sal1950]

It's funny how we all have our individual tolerances. Here I am all happy and fine with the demands of playing records, yet there's been an upswing in the niche popularity of Reel To Reel in the audiophile world, and to me that medium would be utterly intolerable. I couldn't imagine a more off-putting medium...from the hassle of putting on the tape (I don't like tape!) itself, the finickiness, the price of decent tapes and the lack of content. Yuck.

Now your waking up. LOL

 

[Bob from Florida]

Rant

Reminds me: I will never forgive Volkswagen or syriusXM. That damned streaming station came hard programmed in to our VW car's radio bands, a month or so free, and then (after we didn't use it at all) it went blank with just a pop up advertisement to become a paid member to use the service. Well, we didn't want to use the service. But syriusXM can't be removed from the radio bands! So now instead of just being able to toggle between AM and FM or whatever, we have to toggle through that damned useless advertisement. Every. Time. Volkswagen says they can't do a thing, and that others complain too.

/Rant

Set it to channel “0” and even if it comes up there will be no sound. Also remember to turn the radio off before shutting off the car. That way it will stay on the last source you were using. At least it works that way on my work van.

 

[AdrianusG]

Now your waking up. LOL

Well, the people who are into Reel to Reel swear that it beats any and every other format with ease!, so there's that, all anecdotes of course.

 

[Robin L]

Well, the people who are into Reel to Reel swear that it beats any and every other format with ease!, so there's that, all anecdotes of course.

No way - there's tape shed and head wear and wow & flutter and distortion when the tape saturates. A highly overrated medium. Not to mention self-noise. Hand-held digital recorders, capable of 224/96 recording and hundreds of hours of recording on a micro-sd card, beat the pants off that format.

 

[Sal1950]

Hand-held digital recorders, capable of 224/96 recording and hundreds of hours of recording on a micro-sd card, beat the pants off that format.

Or any obsolete mechanical format.
But do remember that any LP pressed before around 1980 was cut from a highly
modified reel to reel tape recording.

 

[MattHooper]

Set it to channel “0” and even if it comes up there will be no sound. Also remember to turn the radio off before shutting off the car. That way it will stay on the last source you were using. At least it works that way on my work van.

Didn’t work. Still blasting sound. But the sound isn’t so much my gripe as a fact that I have a radio band permanently inserted into the system that I don’t use, which I have to cycle past in order to use the other bands.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Didn’t work. Still blasting sound. But the sound isn’t so much my gripe as a fact that I have a radio band permanently inserted into the system that I don’t use, which I have to cycle past in order to use the other bands.

Sorry it didn't work for you. It's always something.....

 

[pablolie]

...
Reminds me: I will never forgive Volkswagen or syriusXM. That damned streaming station came hard programmed in to our VW car's radio bands, a month or so free, and then (after we didn't use it at all) it went blank with just a pop up advertisement to become a paid member to use the service. Well, we didn't want to use the service. But syriusXM can't be removed from the radio bands! So now instead of just being able to toggle between AM and FM or whatever, we have to toggle through that damned useless advertisement. Every. Time. Volkswagen says they can't do a thing, and that others complain too.
...

That sounds like a class action waiting to happen - terrible! My car also came with integrated SiriusXM, and to me the aggravation was that they called me *incessantly* to re-activate SiriusXM with a "new, exciting offer". Every-friggin-day-for-a-g*dd*mn-year...

Outside of that, my rant is along the lines that many car companies are glad to sell you an overpriced "premium" audio system, however many block the system from supporting true quality Bluetooth music streaming from your smartphone (because they'd rather have you sheepishly pay for Sirius, of course). You can do audio calls, but try to stream Spotify from your smartphone, and nope. These days, I only use the Aux port with a Bluetooth receiver (just an example, I am not endorsing a particular product), that way I can reuse all my Spotify favorites.

 

[AaronJ]

Rant

Reminds me: I will never forgive Volkswagen or syriusXM. That damned streaming station came hard programmed in to our VW car's radio bands, a month or so free, and then (after we didn't use it at all) it went blank with just a pop up advertisement to become a paid member to use the service. Well, we didn't want to use the service. But syriusXM can't be removed from the radio bands! So now instead of just being able to toggle between AM and FM or whatever, we have to toggle through that damned useless advertisement. Every. Time. Volkswagen says they can't do a thing, and that others complain too.

/Rant

Not only that, but SiriusXM will continue to send subscription advertisements in the mail every month, and also robo-call. One that I particularly enjoyed was a supposed class action lawsuit settlement where you could choose between a minimal payout (might have been $5?) or....3 free months of SiriusXM, which would undoubtedly require a credit card # to start, and you'd have to write a letter to corporate headquarters that only uses a PO Box 90 days in advance of requesting cancellation.

 

[AaronJ]

That sounds like a class action waiting to happen - terrible! My car also came with integrated SiriusXM, and to me the aggravation was that they called me *incessantly* to re-activate SiriusXM with a "new, exciting offer". Every-friggin-day-for-a-g*dd*mn-year...

Outside of that, my rant is along the lines that many car companies are glad to sell you an overpriced "premium" audio system, however many block the system from supporting true quality Bluetooth music streaming from your smartphone (because they'd rather have you sheepishly pay for Sirius, of course). You can do audio calls, but try to stream Spotify from your smartphone, and nope. These days, I only use the Aux port with a Bluetooth receiver (just an example, I am not endorsing a particular product), that way I can reuse all my Spotify favorites.

Ha literally posted similar at same time.

 

[MattHooper]

There’s plenty of hate online for SiriusXM’s tactics. I seem to remember a class. Action suit was actually launched at some point.
Aside from the issue, I raised, as other pointed out. I was continually badgered by SiriusXM text and emails for months, if not years.

 

[OldHvyMec]

that was the job of the 45's.

To a point. 45s developed for Jukebox were considerably tougher than the typical pop song on a 45 for .99 cents. There was a difference and some
of those records still sound great and SELL for a fortune. Monos of The Beatles, and The Rolling Stones, 10s to hundreds of thousands of dollars for
Jukebox sets of mono pulls. 500.00 dollar records and 1,000.00 dollar 1/4 15 ips tape. It was 5-10.00 for a record and 10-15.00 dollars for a tape
and it came with a new aluminum 10.5" spool.

One fact that a lot of people forget is a few reel to reels had remotes. I can't think of any reason to have one on a record player. Most of the people I
knew (including my parents), NEVER stacked their precious records. That was a No, NO! A remote in one hand and a doobie in the other was a
different story DUDE! You forgot you played it, so you just repeat it. Reel to Reel had their place in a practical world. LOL

I worked as a kid at a radio station. I usually got stuck with holiday duty, but it forced me to learn something. Two large spools at 3.5 ips and a whole
side of a record was a little over 4 hours. I could get my turkey dinner if I planned it right. Otaris were bulletproof back then. Studer and EMTs were
too expensive. Russcos TT and Sparta preamps.

I don't remember a lot of 45s either. What a station used was different than what most people bought, too. Many were labeled, "broadcast,"
and heavier material. They wash them in Ivory soap and used a vacuum. Everybody smoked like a freight train. I didn't smoke tobacco. It was
LA in a broadcast room. The LPs would get sticky, with tar. I'm glad it was a part-time. I prefered diesel smoke anyway. It was the 70s

 

[MattHooper]

A couple years ago I decided to try buying some 7" 45s and I don't think I'll buy any more. One short song seems less worth the fuss in playing the record. I do have a bunch of 12"45 RPM records and I play those pretty often, but they usually have 2 songs per side and or/extended versions of tracks, so I'm good with that.