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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

Fastnet

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I'm a member of a couple of reddit audiophile threads where people post pictures of their rigs and most of the time they include turntables...LP's on the other hand can only be played one at a time, require time, money and effort to obtain and play and also require money and effort to maintain...

Does the vinyl renaissance make sense to you because it sure doesn't to me
The many reasons you listed as nonsensical to you are why it makes sense to me, specially that it can only be played one at the time and that it takes time. Add to that, that's a real thing that I can see, hold and 'play' with when choosing what to listen to, then get to walk up to and waste all that precious time fiddling with the bloody black thing and all the archaic superseded apparatuses involved in converting those vibrations into sound waves...

Besides, you had it in your second line, the word 'include' so it's not either or, I have both options.

How many times have you started a track on Youtube only to click on something else and ended up listening or even watching something completely unrelated? With vinyl, that's harder to impossible unless you count watching it spin which you may find relaxing and perhaps should give it a go.

Another reason is that I listen to a lot of old stuff that precedes digital, which to me makes sense to hear closer to how the people that created that sound were hearing it at the time, this may not make any sense to you.
 

MattHooper

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I can't remember if this showed up anywhere in this thread. But just in case...


Light Electronic instrument Audio equipment Camera accessory Gas



 

Newman

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"Thread....must....not.....DIE!!!!"
 

MattHooper

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I think you can feel proud of the amount you have contributed to keeping this thread going Newman. It's always fun watching someone who put the subject of LPs in their signature line worry about too much LP talk on the forum.
:)
 

Robin L

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MattHooper

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What's the short and skinny? Let me guess - close enough for rock and roll?

You would not believe (I would not believe) how many of those AR XAs I've owned.

The test was to have people guess which was the rip taken from the $500,000 turntable. It was close to even with a slight majority guessing that the AR turntable rip was the expensive one. :)
 

Robin L

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The test was to have people guess which was the rip taken from the $500,000 turntable. It was close to even with a slight majority guessing that the AR turntable rip was the expensive one. :)
;)
 

Robin L

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Thought Newman might actually appreciate that one, but apparently not.
One of the best LP based systems I've heard deployed an AR XA, it was all vintage. I think the trick with that turntable is to not use a high compliance cartridge. I bought a Linn LP 12 with all the trimmings from the guy that owned that AR XA, best turntable I've ever owned.
 

DarkKoala

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I am NOT proud of myself. Jokingly bought two records. Then was thinking maybe should by a TT. Then bought couple more records .... then was thinking maybe now defiantly need to buy a TT. Then it was decided .... I said to myself max 500€ for a used one should be fine. Aactually almost hit the target, but not quite, but not to dramatic of a hit.

After setting up everything, still not completely sure if its right I completely understand the vinyl revival. In simple words:

You get to thinker, collect and spend money every step of the way and the manufacturers and artist get to make that money. Everything is consumable, special and unique. Objects are like peace of art for you and piles of cash for them.

1: Cartridges wear and need to be replaced after 500-1000 HOURS of playback
2: Records wear and need to be replaced after 500-1000 HOURS of playback
3: Belts wear and need to be replaced
4: Bearings wear and need to be replaced
5: The whole TT wears and need to be replaced

Cartridge can cost anything from 50 to over 10K. For our purposes lets say 1000€ for Ortofon black.
Record can cost anything, lets say 20€-50€ a peace

Belts and parts need to be replaced after some time, also cost some money, but is insignificant mostly.

So after an initial investment of 2K€ for the starter package deal with included cartridge and tt you can start enjoying. Exactly like when you buy a printer there are cartridges included for "FREEEEEE". Then you are expected to spend 1000€ every 1000 HOURS of playback. Also you can thinker with the things. You can swap those cartridges thingys ... also some I learnwed needle and cartridge is not the same. Some cartridges can take different needles. There are fairly inexpensive to "holy cow" prices for that. Maybe you favorite record doesn't sound as good any more .... you go out and buy it again. Maybe you get drunk or take drugs or pass out for some reason and forget to lift the ton arm in the end of playback... you do that 10-20 times and you need new needle or cartridge.

Also going to non second hand Record stores with good ventilation and non smelly people and some champagne is a nice experience. Second hand LP stores is basically opposite people smelling like beer and sweat and no ventilation. But you get to buy some irreplaceable one of kind records produced before you were born.

You get to connect with people / chicks in an non weird way if they also like to collect records. Give you a reason to talk to others.

So my math:
2K€ once
then 1K€ per year ideally.
And maybe every 5 years another 2K€ to replace the initial system.

Modern digital Subscription on the other-hand costs just 200€ an year and initial investment for the playback equipment can be just in the hundreds
 

Snoopy

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Your math is a bit strange or maybe I’m not getting it and it’s irony…

You buy a direct drive turntable. Even a new one, from technics you will get under 1000€.
You will probably end up using that thing a good 20 years before even thinking about having it serviced. No need to replace belts or anything else.

You don’t need to spend 1000€ on a ortofon black. You might as well just get a AT 33PTG/2 for 530€ that also has a ML stylus.

Or you go even cheaper with a AT VM540ML with the option to replace the stylus.

New records are expensive but there is plenty of stuff around 20-25€ . And of course used LPs are a nice option where you get nice VG+ or NM stuff for less than 20€

Streaming services are nice but not everything is on there. Especially not if you don’t want to listen to „whatever“ master is currently the one the publisher deems best
 

Leporello

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Your math is a bit strange or maybe I’m not getting it and it’s irony…

You buy a direct drive turntable. Even a new one, from technics you will get under 1000€.
You will probably end up using that thing a good 20 years before even thinking about having it serviced. No need to replace belts or anything else.

You don’t need to spend 1000€ on a ortofon black. You might as well just get a AT 33PTG/2 for 530€ that also has a ML stylus.

Or you go even cheaper with a AT VM540ML with the option to replace the stylus.

New records are expensive but there is plenty of stuff around 20-25€ . And of course used LPs are a nice option where you get nice VG+ or NM stuff for less than 20€

Streaming services are nice but not everything is on there. Especially not if you don’t want to listen to „whatever“ master is currently the one the publisher deems best
This sounds easy, but where's the fun in that?

You need a suspended belt drive turntable that has to be "tuned" in every few years to guarantee its "musicality". If the machine plays at wrong speed, all the better. Endless upgrade paths and third party tweaks await you. See, your turntable is not a machine but a living breathing thing.

Ortofon Black is expensive not expensive enough. Besides, it is a cartridge built by those dull engineering types. The stylus is user replaceable, which is a big no-go.

Instead you need a low output mc cartridge by a Japanese samurai sword manufacturer, made of wood and with as exotic a stylus geometry as possible. Preferably the cartridge should be out of production, too. You get to buy a step up transformer and tinker endlessly when positioning the cartridge (because of the geometry). And when the stylus finally wears out you get to send your out of production cartridge to be retipped or even rebuilt by a wise old white bearded holy man living on a sacred mountain.
 

DarkKoala

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Your math is a bit strange or maybe I’m not getting it and it’s irony…

You buy a direct drive turntable. Even a new one, from technics you will get under 1000€.
You will probably end up using that thing a good 20 years before even thinking about having it serviced. No need to replace belts or anything else.

You don’t need to spend 1000€ on a ortofon black. You might as well just get a AT 33PTG/2 for 530€ that also has a ML stylus.

Or you go even cheaper with a AT VM540ML with the option to replace the stylus.

New records are expensive but there is plenty of stuff around 20-25€ . And of course used LPs are a nice option where you get nice VG+ or NM stuff for less than 20€

Streaming services are nice but not everything is on there. Especially not if you don’t want to listen to „whatever“ master is currently the one the publisher deems best
While I understand that…. since when is 999€ under 1000€ :D. Actually the Direct-drive seem to be more complicated than a belt driven. And besides swapping the belt …. ot mich is expecte.

What truly surprised me is the price and nature of cartridges. If we go to the AT540… than is cool I guess. The black is slightly more. MC requires some special mole (mexican fo sauce) pre amp to run … so i guess thats a no no.
 

Robin L

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While I understand that…. since when is 999€ under 1000€ :D. Actually the Direct-drive seem to be more complicated than a belt driven. And besides swapping the belt …. ot mich is expecte.

What truly surprised me is the price and nature of cartridges. If we go to the AT540… than is cool I guess. The black is slightly more. MC requires some special mole (mexican fo sauce) pre amp to run … so i guess thats a no no.
I got a 40-year-old Technics direct drive turntable around 2015, put a Shure M-44-7 cartridge on it. The turntable, bought used for $50 at a thrift store, worked flawlessly. I had the cartridge body in my collection but had to buy a replacement stylus. Forget how much that cost. Less than $100. The Shure M-44-7 was a specialty cartridge, intended for DJs it could take back-cueing and could track anything; it was a DJ cartridge.

Direct drive turntables might seem more complicated to you, but they are less complicated than belt drive tables; fewer parts to wear out or wind up no longer in production. I've owned a number of belt drive turntables; they go out of skew in time. Either the belts wear out or the subchassis needs some form of readjustment. If the belts are no longer available, you're SOoL. I don't intend to ever get into LPs again, but if I did, I would go for a Technics turntable. Nothing to adjust, speed is spot on, little rumble or wow and flutter. One of my turntables had a high output Audio Technica MC cartridge, that was excellent, didn't require a step-up transformer or a different phono preamp.
 

DarkKoala

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I got a 40-year-old Technics direct drive turntable around 2015, put a Shure M-44-7 cartridge on it. The turntable, bought used for $50 at a thrift store, worked flawlessly. I had the cartridge body in my collection but had to buy a replacement stylus. Forget how much that cost. Less than $100. The Shure M-44-7 was a specialty cartridge, intended for DJs it could take back-cueing and could track anything; it was a DJ cartridge.

Direct drive turntables might seem more complicated to you, but they are less complicated than belt drive tables; fewer parts to wear out or wind up no longer in production. I've owned a number of belt drive turntables; they go out of skew in time. Either the belts wear out or the subchassis needs some form of readjustment. If the belts are no longer available, you're SOoL. I don't intend to ever get into LPs again, but if I did, I would go for a Technics turntable. Nothing to adjust, speed is spot on, little rumble or wow and flutter. One of my turntables had a high output Audio Technica MC cartridge, that was excellent, didn't require a step-up transformer or a different phono preamp.
So I can not just use any belt of the right size?
 

Robin L

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So I can not just use any belt of the right size?
No, the belt must be exactly the right size. I had to stop using one of my best turntables because nobody had a proper replacement belt. The turntable had not been in production for at least four decades, had an odd design.
 

DarkKoala

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No, the belt must be exactly the right size. I had to stop using one of my best turntables because nobody had a proper replacement belt. The turntable had not been in production for at least four decades, had an odd design.
That quite disappointin. After watching some Videos and doing some observing …. direct drive mucho complicado, lots of components things to go wrong. Belt driven: just a motor and a belt… simple… I guess I was wrong about that.
 

Snoopy

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While I understand that…. since when is 999€ under 1000€ :D. Actually the Direct-drive seem to be more complicated than a belt driven. And besides swapping the belt …. ot mich is expecte.

What truly surprised me is the price and nature of cartridges. If we go to the AT540… than is cool I guess. The black is slightly more. MC requires some special mole (mexican fo sauce) pre amp to run … so i guess thats a no no.


The ortofon black is 540€… the AT540ML is 260€ don’t know if this qualifies as slightly more for the black.

I paid 829€ for my new SL1500C from a HiFi store. But you also get the 100C and the 1210MK7 for around 900€ when they are on offer every couple of weeks.

I think this is far from „expensive“ for something that will last you a very long time while still retaining a good resell value.

By the way I spend between 100-150€ on 10 used LPs in VG+ or NM condition.
 
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