System for a 16yr old, could I do better than this?

[Somafunk]

It’s for a mates kid as a Xmas present, he’s into vinyl and currently uses a very cheap all in one unit with inbuilt speakers but on visits to drop shopping & stuff at mine/listen to my system, he has been casually asking me about better turntables so I’ve cleared it with his mum that I can buy him something better for Xmas, but that means turntable + amp + speakers so due to space constraints in his tiny room I’ve thought of the following setup,

Project Debut S turntable - £349

Wiim Ultra Streamer - £350

Kali LP-UNF monitors - £300

It’s a lot of money but he’s been through hell over the past few years with his dad (close mate) dying with oesophageal cancer (horrible) and yet he’s been so mature and been a rock for his mum (my best mate) as well as doing loads of stuff for myself (I have spms), he did well at his standard grades, teachers love him, wants to study international relations so I feel he needs a wee treat for Xmas.

All the above get excellent reviews and the Wiim Ultra seems to tick two boxes with having the phono input, and also being an excellent streamer (he also has a Spotify subscription). As I mentioned his room is small (10ft x 6ft ish) so the speakers would have to fit on his ikea desk and the turntable on a wall shelf (something else I’ll need).

The only thing I’m not 100% convinced on is the turntable?, I have zero knowledge regarding spinny black discs so is it worth the money?, or should I be looking elsewhere?

Ta very much,

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EDIT : No need to read any further, Thanks to advice I think the most sensible option is Q Acoustic M20 monitors and Project T1 Bluetooth turntable with built in phono stage as it can connect together with Bluetooth (or phono lead if necessary) he can stream his Spotify account from his phone to M20 and connect his TV/Xbox to M20 as well so that’s a bonus and it’s £300 cheaper than my original setup above.

No need for a Wiim Ultra - that was a daft idea.

He’ll be off to university in two years so ease of use and convenience trumps ultimate sound quality, especially as he’ll be stuck in pokey little university halls of residence rooms or flat-share with mates (if funds allow).

This would get him started with good enough sound quality to satisfy pretty much anyone and be more “HiFi” than what 99% of the population own/use, he’s got a lifetime to explore the black hole of audio and upgrade if he sees fit.

 

[Doodski]

Aww... You brought a tear to my eye with your story and purchasing this as a gift.

 

[Somafunk]

Aww... You brought a tear to my eye with your story and purchasing this as a gift.

His mum asked how much a good turntable for him would be?, I replied around £300(ish)……………she said that’s a lot of money for you so don’t spend any more on him.

I didn’t tell her he will also need speakers and a phono amp or Wiim mini (better option).

She’ll kill me

 

[Doodski]

His mum asked how much a good turntable for him would be?, I replied around £300(ish)……………she said that’s a lot of money for you so don’t spend any more on him.

I didn’t tell her he will also need speakers and a phono amp or Wiim mini (better option).

She’ll kill me

Hehehe. No turkey at dinner for you!

 

[jcarys]

Project is a well regarded brand with a long history of excellent turntables. I'd say it's hard to go wrong with your choice as long as he is OK with the manual adjustments. There are simpler turntables if he just wants to set it and forget it. Outside of looking at the used market, I'd say you put together a pretty great system for 1K. It's a good starting point for him and he can decide how he wants to expand it or improve it in the future.

 

[Somafunk]

Project is a well regarded brand with a long history of excellent turntables. I'd say it's hard to go wrong with your choice as long as he is OK with the manual adjustments. There are simpler turntables if he just wants to set it and forget it. Outside of looking at the used market, I'd say you put together a pretty great system for 1K. It's a good starting point for him and he can decide how he wants to expand it or improve it in the future.

Yeah that’s one of the issues that has me hesitant on purchasing the Project, perhaps it would be better to buy a fully automatic turntable (a more DJ style turntable) with less “fiddly” bits but then again “less sound quality” but as long as he’s careful the Project shouldn’t need any fiddling with, the dealer is local (50 miles away) and have a good reputation so I’m sure will have set it up correctly before shipping it to me.

 

[Waxx]

The Project for 350 is cheap, they used to cost double. But Project is not that good that i would call it a real good turntable. It's ok, and for it's price it's good. But a real good turntable that will last is more like a Technics SL100Cor SL1500 (that cost at least double).

But with that budget you have, the Project is a good buy. It's weak points are that it's very sensitive to touching or vibrations, and need to be damped (easy fix with two big tiles and a piece of isolation foam between it). I had an older version of this one and sold it for that reason. Touching sounds are harder to avoid, but when the record is playing and you don't touch the turntable you don't have that. It's also belt drive (what has disadvantages), direct drive turntables are (at least today) with less rumble sounds as the drive is not a physical connection, but a magnetic field in the motor. But others may disagree on that...

But don't let that stop you, a Project for that price is good. The only real alternative would be an Audio Technica AT-LP120USB (but don't use the usb or the internal preamp as that is crap). I never had them side by side or measured, but Project and AT are the only ones in this price range that i think are OK (except second hand). Above 500€ you got more options altough. But if you want a end game, get a modern technics (but not the SL1200 MK7). The SL1500 or SL100C are both good enough, no need to spend more.

BTW, i'm using older technics myself, an SL1500MKI from 1976 and a SL1210MKII from 2009. That first one was bought second hand (from the original owner) for 250€ about 10 years ago and it's still in almost mint condition after almost 50 years of use. It was fully original (even with old cell) when i bought it and i did only change the rca out cord and the cell and needle (now an AT-VM95e/n). The other one, also bought second hand, was hardly used (was in storage for about 15 years) and still has the original Stanton 500MKII cel and also in mint condition.

 

[DVDdoug]

The only thing I’m not 100% convinced on is the turntable?, I have zero knowledge regarding spinny black discs so is it worth the money?, or should I be looking elsewhere?

I grew-up with vinyl and I'm NOT a fan... No matter how much you spend, it's an inferior format. There is ALWAYS background noise. Sometimes loud-annoying (to me) clicks & pops. There can also be frequency response variations and distortion.

I replied around £300(ish)…………

That seems to be around the sweet spot. I wouldn't go too cheap because (unlike digital) there is some relationship between price and sound quality. Note that traditionally, turntables don't come with a cartridge so consider that when you're comparing prices.

If I was buying a turntable I'd get direct drive and I'd look seriously at the AT-LP120XUSB. It's direct drive, it comes ready-to-play with a cartridge and built-in phono preamp. And it has USB for digitizing records. (It also has Bluetooth, which I don't care about.)

...I have a 40-year old direct-drive Technics turntable (not the high-end DJ model) and it still works perfectly. With direct drive there are no belts or pulleys to wear out. It hasn't had much use for the last few decades... I don't play records anymore but I occasionally digitize one.

Ignoring the limitations of vinyl for the moment, "sound quality" mostly comes down speakers (and enough amplifier power to drive them however loud you want to go). Or headphones... You can get some excellent sounding headphones for a couple hundred dollars. (You can sort the reviews here by price and "recommended".)

 

[Somafunk]

But if you want a end game, get a modern technics (but not the SL1200 MK7). The SL1500 or SL100C are both good enough, no need to spend more.

I used to have a couple of 1210’s 20 odd years ago but sold them , along with my 500+ 12” dance/electronic singles.

I’d like to buy the best I can, but “best” is out of budget so I’m happy with “acceptable” and something that will last.

 

[Somafunk]

I grew-up with vinyl and I'm NOT a fan... No matter how much you spend, it's an inferior format. There is ALWAYS background noise. Sometimes loud-annoying (to me) clicks & pops. There can also be frequency response variations and distortion.


That seems to be around the sweet spot. I wouldn't go too cheap because (unlike digital) there is some relationship between price and sound quality. Note that traditionally, turntables don't come with a cartridge so consider that when you're comparing prices.

If I was buying a turntable I'd get direct drive and I'd look seriously at the AT-LP120XUSB. It's direct drive, it comes ready-to-play with a cartridge and built-in phono preamp. And it has USB for digitizing records. (It also has Bluetooth, which I don't care about.)

...I have a 40-year old direct-drive Technics turntable (not the high-end DJ model) and it still works perfectly. With direct drive there are no belts or pulleys to wear out. It hasn't had much use for the last few decades... I don't play records anymore but I occasionally digitize one.

Ignoring the limitations of vinyl for the moment, "sound quality" mostly comes down speakers (and enough amplifier power to drive them however loud you want to go). Or headphones... You can get some excellent sounding headphones for a couple hundred dollars. (You can sort the reviews here by price and "recommended".)

I’m not a fan either (been using active monitors/digital files for almost 20 years) and when he first got into vinyl 18 months ago I thought about telling him not to bother but that’s not my place to do so, he gets enjoyment out of having the physical album so that’s all that matters.

The Project comes with a decent cartridge and fully set up so he shouldn’t have to fiddle with it, I previously looked at that Audio Technica in my searches but he’ll never use it to digitise his albums nor use the Bluetooth and I read reports that the included preamp is not that good.

 

[stubaggs]

I’m not a fan either (been using active monitors/digital files for almost 20 years) and when he first got into vinyl 18 months ago I thought about telling him not to bother but that’s not my place to do so, he gets enjoyment out of having the physical album so that’s all that matters.

The Project comes with a decent cartridge and fully set up so he shouldn’t have to fiddle with it, I previously looked at that Audio Technica in my searches but he’ll never use it to digitise his albums nor use the Bluetooth and I read reports that the included preamp is not that good.

Another option similar to project is a Rega, good build quality, and simple setup. https://www.rega.co.uk/products/planar-1-plus

 

[Waxx]

I used to have a couple of 1210’s 20 odd years ago but sold them , along with my 500+ 12” dance/electronic singles.

I’d like to buy the best I can, but “best” is out of budget so I’m happy with “acceptable” and something that will last.

I just wanted to point that there are big differences. But the project is not that bad, especially for a 16 years old discovering vinyl. And it comes preset right, that is true. So I would not buy it, but for your son and with your budget, it's probally the best deal arround. I started with way less (an old beaten up dual 601) at that age... Just don't expect it to be technics quality, or very durable. They are not (and neighter is the Audio Technica).

And if you need to buy a cell, the AT-VM95E is cheap, and the best by far compared to many others even costing double or triple that price. Many turntables come standard with that cell today btw, maybe even your Project (i don't know what they put on it now). You surely can buy better, but for your son it won't matter at this age. But first use the cell untill it breaks that is delivered with it, that should do the job also if it's a half decent one.

 

[Somafunk]

On another forum (uk based) someone mentioned buying a Bluetooth turntable such as the Project T1 BT and Q Acoustics M20 wireless/bluetooth speakers (well reviewed) he could Bluetooth Spotify directly from his phone and connect the turntable by Bluetooth. Nice simple setup with minimum wires that he could easily take to uni in a couple of years.

If “I were buying for myself” then the Wiim ultra/project debut s setup would be perfect and what I’d want, but I’m buying for a 16yr old and have to take that into consideration, being a 16yr old he has iPhone permanently glued to his hand so this would be a vast improvement over his current £150 all in one turntable/speaker setup

And it’s £300 cheaper, so I would have the £ saved to buy him a few vinyl albums to go with it.

 

[Mean & Green]

That looks like a really great present for the lad. I’m sure you could do much worse for that budget.

With regards to turntables on an audiophile forum, I generally find people blow things out of proportion. I appreciate some people prefer direct drive and are fans of the legendary Technics decks etc, but sometimes money is the deciding factor. Pro-Ject are very well established.

The Debut S has adjustable tracking force and antiskate as well as a detachable head shell. The Debut has evolved enough to be a dependable good quality deck. Sure it wouldn’t stand up to DJ style usage, but for playing records with stability and fidelity they are not going to be bettered at this price point. Sure a direct drive will be better in terms of a measured noise/rumble, but the Debut isn’t likely to be intrusive in this regard during actual listing.

For the record (pun intended) I’ve got two Pro-Jects. One is a basic Elemental which I’ve had 10 years and I haven’t ever changed a belt on it, still plays at a steady speed. The other is Debut Pro which I’ve owned for 16 months. Can’t fault the Debut for rumble and tracking ability. I’ve never had an issue with feedback or vibrations either even at incredibly loud levels with a subwoofer in my system.

I know my Debut Pro is higher up the range than the S, but for your price level I think the S is a no brainer. Yes the young lad will have to manually operate it, but that is part of the ritual with vinyl. It should be a pretty dependable unit IMO keeping budget in perspective.

 

[Soniclife]

@Somafunk This is a lovely thing you are doing, I'm sure he will enjoy almost anything half decent.

I don't know the current TT market at all but the project you link to has a phono stage built in, so the cheaper wiim pro could be an option, I don't know if that would release funds for a better TT.

 

[Somafunk]

He could stream Spotify directly from his phone to the M20 so the Wiim idea is now redundant , and more importantly the M20 are available in white so I’ll have to make sure the turntable i decide on is also white (his bedroom is entirely white ikea furniture that I bought him a few years ago).

Phew…from a £1k setup down to approx £600 - £700, much more manageable now it’s dawned on me the system is for a teenager (not myself) where convenience is king and Bluetooth is perfectly fine to listen to

 

[DMill]

This is an extremely thoughtful list and gift. I can think of no way you’d see improvements without spending more. Nice job and good on you.

 

[Soniclife]

it’s dawned on me the system is for a teenager (not myself) where convenience is king and Bluetooth is perfectly fine to listen to

A hidden benefit of Bluetooth in this case might be too allow the TT and speakers to be on different bits of furniture, which is going to help reduce feedback. Though given the small room size that might be a challenge.

 

[restorer-john]

Gotta agree, it's a carefully thought out and sensible system.

What I would also do is give him a spare headshell with say an ATVM95C mounted to use for vinyl he picks up 2nd hand. Teach him how to correctly balance the arm and he'll be able to change from the Sumiko to the AT whenever. Otherwise, he's one accident away from the TT needing an expensive stylus. A 16yo will back-cue at some stage, even if he's told not to, pretending to be a DJ and that will snap off or damage the Sumiko. Then he'll feel like a goose.

Or even grab a few of the medium VTF tracking AT-3600 carts/styli/headshell for when his mates come over and mess with his TT.

 

[Sokel]

I grew up with records,first the family ones then my own from 14 yo and on.
Bought a lot of records with my own money and I probably remember even the order I bought them.
So on top of the beautiful gesture I'm getting sentimental about this too.

BUT!
Has he ever listen to records?Likes them?Is there a chance to get him to listen to some if he hasn't?
If he doesn't,he's 16 with all that comes with it.
Maybe a sub would be a better idea as the tiny Kalis will bottom sooner or later?