Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[DarkKoala]

The ortofon black is 540€… the AT540ML is 260€ don’t know if this qualifies as slightly more for the black.

I paid 829€ for my new SL1500C from a HiFi store. But you also get the 100C and the 1210MK7 for around 900€ when they are on offer every couple of weeks.

I think this is far from „expensive“ for something that will last you a very long time while still retaining a good resell value.

By the way I spend between 100-150€ on 10 used LPs in VG+ or NM condition.

yeah ok. maybe i was looking and slightly more expensive cartridges with non user replaceable needles …. seen like it, I guess its ok.

 

[Robin L]

That quite disappointin. After watching some Videos and doing some observing …. direct drive mucho complicado, lots of components things to go wrong. Belt driven: just a motor and a belt… simple… I guess I was wrong about that.

Nope, direct drive is no more complicated than modern belt drive 'tables with electronic speed adjustment. Direct drive 'tables have fewer components. Mind you, older belt drive 'tables were just a synchronous electric motor and a pair of pulleys on the same shaft. One would move the pulley if one wanted to change speed. The Acoustic Research XA turntable had this design. That was a simple design, but most modern belt driven turntables have some sort of electronic speed adjustment. And direct drive turntables are less complex in design than belt driven 'tables with electronic speed control.

 

[DarkKoala]

Nope, direct drive is no more complicated than modern belt drive 'tables with electronic speed adjustment. Direct drive 'tables have fewer components. Mind you, older belt drive 'tables were just a synchronous electric motor and a pair of pulleys on the same shaft. One would move the pulley if one wanted to change speed. The Acoustic Research XA turntable had this design. That was a simple design, but most modern belt driven turntables have some sort of electronic speed adjustment. And direct drive turntables are less complex in design than belt driven 'tables with electronic speed control.

My mofi is the same. Have to move the belt to adjust speed. So I‘m assuming is as simple aas they get.

 

[Robin L]

My mofi is the same. Have to move the belt to adjust speed. So I‘m assuming is as simple aas they get.

Are you saying you already have a turntable?

 

[DarkKoala]

Are you saying you already have a turntable?

Didn’t I started with …. I‘m not proud of it …. but

 

[Robin L]

Didn’t I started with …. I‘m not proud of it …. butView attachment 374169

I doubt that paying more will get you better performance. With LP playback, the LPs themselves are the limiting factor. No LP is perfectly concentric, many LPs suffer from enough warpage to have audible wow and flutter, all LPs suffer from inner groove distortion to a greater or lesser extent. Get a good microline stylus. Audio Technica has a good line of moving magnet cartridges with replaceable styli, including microline styli, at reasonable prices. Enjoy what you've got, don't expect perfection. Good digital is more "perfect" than good analog, has better measurable performance, is much, much cheaper. It looks like the MoFi deck doesn't have a sprung suspension, so that doesn't look like it will go out of whack.

 

[DarkKoala]

I doubt that paying more will get you better performance. With LP playback, the LPs themselves are the limiting factor. No LP is perfectly concentric, many LPs suffer from enough warpage to have audible wow and flutter, all LPs suffer from inner groove distortion to a greater or lesser extent. Get a good microline stylus. Audio Technica has a good line of moving magnet cartridges with replaceable styli, including microline styli, at reasonable prices. Enjoy what you've got, don't expect perfection. Good digital is more "perfect" than good analog, has better measurable performance, is much, much cheaper. It looks like the MoFi deck doesn't have a sprung suspension, so that doesn't look like it will go out of whack.

you are right paying more will just allow me to se smaller numbers on my bank account.

 

[MattHooper]

I am NOT proud of myself. Jokingly bought two records. Then was thinking maybe should by a TT. Then bought couple more records .... then was thinking maybe now defiantly need to buy a TT. Then it was decided .... I said to myself max 500€ for a used one should be fine. Aactually almost hit the target, but not quite, but not to dramatic of a hit.

After setting up everything, still not completely sure if its right I completely understand the vinyl revival. In simple words:

You get to thinker, collect and spend money every step of the way and the manufacturers and artist get to make that money. Everything is consumable, special and unique. Objects are like peace of art for you and piles of cash for them.

1: Cartridges wear and need to be replaced after 500-1000 HOURS of playback
2: Records wear and need to be replaced after 500-1000 HOURS of playback
3: Belts wear and need to be replaced
4: Bearings wear and need to be replaced
5: The whole TT wears and need to be replaced

Cartridge can cost anything from 50 to over 10K. For our purposes lets say 1000€ for Ortofon black.
Record can cost anything, lets say 20€-50€ a peace

Belts and parts need to be replaced after some time, also cost some money, but is insignificant mostly.

So after an initial investment of 2K€ for the starter package deal with included cartridge and tt you can start enjoying. Exactly like when you buy a printer there are cartridges included for "FREEEEEE". Then you are expected to spend 1000€ every 1000 HOURS of playback. Also you can thinker with the things. You can swap those cartridges thingys ... also some I learnwed needle and cartridge is not the same. Some cartridges can take different needles. There are fairly inexpensive to "holy cow" prices for that. Maybe you favorite record doesn't sound as good any more .... you go out and buy it again. Maybe you get drunk or take drugs or pass out for some reason and forget to lift the ton arm in the end of playback... you do that 10-20 times and you need new needle or cartridge.

Also going to non second hand Record stores with good ventilation and non smelly people and some champagne is a nice experience. Second hand LP stores is basically opposite people smelling like beer and sweat and no ventilation. But you get to buy some irreplaceable one of kind records produced before you were born.

You get to connect with people / chicks in an non weird way if they also like to collect records. Give you a reason to talk to others.

So my math:
2K€ once
then 1K€ per year ideally.
And maybe every 5 years another 2K€ to replace the initial system.

Modern digital Subscription on the other-hand costs just 200€ an year and initial investment for the playback equipment can be just in the hundreds

That was certainly some odd math...tongue in cheek I presume.

My previous turntable was a micro seiki, inherited from my father-in-law. It was 37 years old when I sold it and working perfectly as it always did.
My new turntable is a belt drive model and the main maintanance since 2017 was replacing a cartridge, once. I have about 1,000 records, most of them quite old,
all very playable, most sound very good IMO.

It's too bad you feel this forum forces you to feel "not proud of yourself" for getting in to records (even tongue in cheek).

I hope you manage to have fun at some point, seeing the positives from your own experience, rather than all the negatives. Otherwise, it doesn't seem an activity for you.

 

[DarkKoala]

That was certainly some odd math...tongue in cheek I presume.

My previous turntable was a micro seiki, inherited from my father-in-law. It was 37 years old when I sold it and working perfectly as it always did.
My new turntable is a belt drive model and the main maintanance since 2017 was replacing a cartridge, once. I have about 1,000 records, most of them quite old,
all very playable, most sound very good IMO.

It's too bad you feel this forum forces you to feel "not proud of yourself" for getting in to records (even tongue in cheek).

I hope you manage to have fun at some point, seeing the positives from your own experience, rather than all the negatives. Otherwise, it doesn't seem an activity for you.

I‘m having tons of fun. Just wasn’t expecting from myself that I‘ll be buying a physical medium player. Never used a cd player when they were popular.

 

[MattHooper]

I‘m having tons of fun. Just wasn’t expecting from myself that I‘ll be buying a physical medium player. Never used a cd player when they were popular.

That's great!

So can you see some reasons for the vinyl revival from the point of view of the record enthusiast, rather than just from the people selling stuff?

 

[DarkKoala]

That's great!

So can you see some reasons for the vinyl revival from the point of view of the record enthusiast, rather than just from the people selling stuff?

yeah definitely.

I really like Santana, so went and bought my fav Album Shaman. I was expecting 2 black disks … when I opened it i was looking at the most cool electric purple disks … seeng those disks spin and reflect my plant lamps (yeah I have special lamps for my plants) in the whole room … was really cool experience.
Also found an unique and supposedly limited metallica disc with 4 songs specifically meant for radio broadcasting in 1987 …. never have I heard those specific versions of the songs, which are in my tops fav metallica songs. Master of puppets and For whom the bell tolls.

Also the bass doesnt go out of control. I mostly reduce the volume of the source by 12db, so i can turn up a bit the amp knob. With the tt i was expecting really strong bass, so i had shut off the sub. But turns out, output is same as -12db on digital source… so my room is not overwhelmed.

Sound quality wise is good …. i mean not really noticeable difference besides some clicks and pops from time to time. But its not better or worse. Is like my digital source: very good.

 

[DSJR]

One of the best LP based systems I've heard deployed an AR XA, it was all vintage. I think the trick with that turntable is to not use a high compliance cartridge. I bought a Linn LP 12 with all the trimmings from the guy that owned that AR XA, best turntable I've ever owned.

Notts Analogue Spacedeck with RB300 was a far superior player to a pre-Cirkus LP12/Ittok and maybe beating the Cirkus-update era one as well, although I never compared them by this time.

Linn actually put me off vinyl for ages as their Blue Nile master tapes (30IPS/half inch two track/no Dolby/ATR102 player) absolute ate subjectively the 12" single derived from those very tapes and the LP of that track was laughably bad! It was a while before I heard a deck (at far less money too) which mentally closed the gap for me. Even then, if I started a vinyl session with my precious Decca Gold Microscanner, it almost always ended with the deck switched off and CDs played instead...

The AR XB (still good main bearing before they went all sloppy and with built in cueing device) was always one I'd have like to own, but prices are silly now. Still fond of the LP12s immediate ancestor, the Thorens TD150mk2, but the bearing thrust plates will mostly be worn out by now sadly judging from various samples of 150 and even 160 I've seen.

 

[JP]

Or you go even cheaper with a AT VM540ML with the option to replace the stylus.

Or VM95ML for even less, and easier to load right.

 

[deweydm]

While I understand that…. since when is 999€ under 1000€ . Actually the Direct-drive seem to be more complicated than a belt driven. And besides swapping the belt …. ot mich is expecte.

What truly surprised me is the price and nature of cartridges. If we go to the AT540… than is cool I guess. The black is slightly more. MC requires some special mole (mexican fo sauce) pre amp to run … so i guess thats a no no.

Are older technics, quartz locked, direct drive T4P tables available to you inexpensively? Here in the US, decent P-mount tables can still be found for less than new entry level tables, and can be very reliable in my experience.

 

[DSJR]

Or VM95ML for even less, and easier to load right.

Oh come on, give the subjectivist eye-fi part of us something to look out for?

The VM500 range has better internals, posher spec internal coil wire and gold finished/plated pins.

Actually, as the 540 is reportedly a bit 'lively' if better than its parent 440, I'd look at the 740 - same as the 540 but with metallic mounting bracket - which, according to tech tests and sound-bites on the German Lowbeats site, is a touch more 'restrained' which should suit livelier tonearm structures. The internally inferior to the VM500s and ancestors Linn K9 of yore would sell for something like this amount these days (£300/$400) if still made (K9 was an AT95 body with metallic mount bracket and a 'Vital' naked elliptical stylus)

I'm fond of the Ortofon 2M Bronze as well, but prices are getting high now. Sounded great on a Rega deck and they now make slimmer ones for the Rega arm to better match VTA as well.

 

[JP]

Oh come on, give the subjectivist eye-fi part of us something to look out for?

The VM500 range has better internals, posher spec internal coil wire and gold finished/plated pins.

Actually, as the 540 is reportedly a bit 'lively' if better than its parent 440, I'd look at the 740 - same as the 540 but with metallic mounting bracket - which, according to tech tests and sound-bites on the German Lowbeats site, is a touch more 'restrained' which should suit livelier tonearm structures. The internally inferior to the VM500s and ancestors Linn K9 of yore would sell for something like this amount these days (£300/$400) if still made (K9 was an AT95 body with metallic mount bracket and a 'Vital' naked elliptical stylus)

I'm fond of the Ortofon 2M Bronze as well, but prices are getting high now. Sounded great on a Rega deck and they now make slimmer ones for the Rega arm to better match VTA as well.

I have the entire VM95/500/700 series. I generally find Lowbeats measurements to be competent, but their subjective descriptions are no different than any other subjective descriptions. Next time I'm doing laybacks I'll do some 95ML vs. 740ML for you.

 

[Robin L]

I‘m having tons of fun. Just wasn’t expecting from myself that I‘ll be buying a physical medium player. Never used a cd player when they were popular.

My source right now is a Sony Blu-ray player I got from a thrift shop for $8 (plus a remote from Amazon for $12) hooked up to a Topping E30 DAC, plugged into a Topping L30 to adjust volume. The most detailed, transparent sound I've ever had in any of my audio systems over 50 years. I've got over 1,400 CDs, still getting more. Cheaper and better sounding than LP replay.

 

[MattHooper]

yeah definitely.

I really like Santana, so went and bought my fav Album Shaman. I was expecting 2 black disks … when I opened it i was looking at the most cool electric purple disks … seeng those disks spin and reflect my plant lamps (yeah I have special lamps for my plants) in the whole room … was really cool experience.
Also found an unique and supposedly limited metallica disc with 4 songs specifically meant for radio broadcasting in 1987 …. never have I heard those specific versions of the songs, which are in my tops fav metallica songs. Master of puppets and For whom the bell tolls.

Also the bass doesnt go out of control. I mostly reduce the volume of the source by 12db, so i can turn up a bit the amp knob. With the tt i was expecting really strong bass, so i had shut off the sub. But turns out, output is same as -12db on digital source… so my room is not overwhelmed.

Sound quality wise is good …. i mean not really noticeable difference besides some clicks and pops from time to time. But its not better or worse. Is like my digital source: very good.

Awesome!

I've noted that the those with the most baffled or cynical attitude towards the vinyl revival are those who actually grew up with records. Their view is "been there done that, we all moved on to something better...CD..streaming...so why would anyone want to go back to an archaic format?"

It's often younger people who had no experience, or much less experience, with the record era, who have re-discovered the joy of playing vinyl. There are aspects of playing that physical medium that you don't get with digital, so they are discovering it anew and excited about it, rather than being in the "been there done that" camp of the old grumps

Though of course some of us older folk who grew up with records have enjoyed the revival as well. As I've detailed in this thread, though I moved quickly to CDs when those took over, as well as to digital music servers, streaming etc, I kept a record player around that I'd throw in to my system sometimes just to play some really old records I still had from my teenage collection. Mostly a nostalgia trip. And that was the era before the revival when what record stores still existed were generally the old dusty second hand shops. So I associated vinyl with "old, moth-eaten, bent-cornered, creased covers, musty old record shops" etc. Very retro. But during the revival tons of new vinyl started being produced, with lots of attention to the quality of the physical aspects - really high quality album art, sleeves, cool colored vinyl etc. When I started buying new vinyl (my favourite being new pressings of either new or old movie soundtracks in gorgeous packaging), the experience was of actually having a brand new record - unwrapping the seal, opening a pristine album cover, pristine right-off-the-press shiny new vinyl. And it generally played really clean.

THAT's when things clicked for me. Vinyl felt new again to me, revived, not just an old dusty moth-eaten thing. Both the product felt new, and the buzz about vinyl felt new, contemporary, not just nostalgia. So for me it was less about nostalgia (though there is an aspect of that) and more about re-experiencing vinyl as "a new thing" again in my music collecting and listening routine.

 

[DSJR]

I have the entire VM95/500/700 series. I generally find Lowbeats measurements to be competent, but their subjective descriptions are no different than any other subjective descriptions. Next time I'm doing laybacks I'll do some 95ML vs. 740ML for you.

I never take much notice of the subjective stuff, but I'd appreciate needle-drops if you could - thanks

 

[MattHooper]

The Truth Is Out There…

Do Vinyl Records Actually Sound Better Than CDs? We Take A Closer Look - SlashGear

Whether you prefer collecting vinyl or collecting CDs, the narrative has always been that vinyl sounds better. How true is this? SlashGear investigates.

www.slashgear.com

This article has convinced me to dump my records!