I have two rules to keep my sanity in online discussions like this. I don't try to justify the choices I make and I don't push my choices on others.
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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?
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Robin L
Master Contributor
BluRay, Atmos mixes.
killdozzer
Major Contributor
Funny you should say this, I was just about to write about my ritual with CDs and then thought perhaps not add more mud to the water. In short, I really had it. I grew up in records, but a switch was the real magic for me. I was enchanted with the technology and also spent some sleepless nights when I got my first CD players as a present from my mum (I was just a kid). Anyway, that doesn't bring anything to the table, but I love a lot of things about CDs including those booklets with all the lyrics and so on. And it really is the ONLY way to listen to an album from the beginning to the end.
I'm just teasing now.I was trying to be gentleman-like and practice some self-criticism.
Talking about increase in sales and, again, I'll try to talk only about what I've seen even if it's one living person doing so, is that a lot of people did throw away all their records collections in dumpsters (it was mid 90' in my country when you could find crates of records in dumpsters, I swear it would make my father shed a tear), but now they wish they didn't, they want to go back and they buy even some of those they already had skipping only those that they didn't like in the first place. So in some cases going back to vinyl might imply big purchases.
Another reason, what I see in some cases is that people will buy digital as a general rule, but when they really fall for an album, they'll get that one on a record. I already mentioned my nephew who is not listening to the album he asked for his birthday. That record has two spins in it's life. This is where I think cover art and high price may play a role. People get the feeling of value through the price and often display these records instead of art on the walls.
If you want to have a physical medium then it's pretty much clear what will you do when you reach that point of decision cloud or record (I've personally noticed some albums don't come into stores on CDs at all).
And finally, the prices of second hand records are plummeting so fast and so low, my shop offers 10 000 titles selection of 15 cents an album. I'm starting to wonder what this says about the whole thing.
JP
Major Contributor
Where’s this? My local has very high prices and seemingly good foot traffic.
killdozzer
Major Contributor
Ken1951
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Music = Important. Medium = Irrelevant.
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So this claim:
Is based on this store:
Hookay.
No such drop in prices anywhere I've seen, either in any local record shops, discogs, on vinyl forums, reported in the news, or anywhere else.
But Free Bird second hand shop has low prices so I guess "second hand record prices are plummeting."
. I'd hope for more evidence for our claims here.
(I think your other two points seemed valid though).
Is based on this store:
Hookay.
No such drop in prices anywhere I've seen, either in any local record shops, discogs, on vinyl forums, reported in the news, or anywhere else.
But Free Bird second hand shop has low prices so I guess "second hand record prices are plummeting."
. I'd hope for more evidence for our claims here. (I think your other two points seemed valid though).
Found this interesting, although I'd like to see more support for the numbers.
"In a deep-dive investigation, Mixmag recently discovered that the global vinyl industry is in crisis as a result of higher demand, rising shipping prices, and a lack of pressing materials. It was revealed the global pressing capacity is around 160 million records a year - while the demand lies at around 400 million."
On a separate note, the artist's profit from selling records is another element. I can't find it now, but I was reading how the profits from a few hundred albums is more than 500,000 streams. Might be a reason to be sure they are promoted.
"In a deep-dive investigation, Mixmag recently discovered that the global vinyl industry is in crisis as a result of higher demand, rising shipping prices, and a lack of pressing materials. It was revealed the global pressing capacity is around 160 million records a year - while the demand lies at around 400 million."
On a separate note, the artist's profit from selling records is another element. I can't find it now, but I was reading how the profits from a few hundred albums is more than 500,000 streams. Might be a reason to be sure they are promoted.
Second hand shops and Sunday markets have always been dirt cheap. But you're not going to find a first print Thriller there. It's mostly mass produced compilations albums and garbage that no one wanted to begin with.
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Yup. Those have been the main stories about vinyl, currently. It's why of course vinyl prices aren't dropping (second hand or otherwise). Indie artists especially bemoaning how hard it is to get their music pressed these days. And it is one source of income - of course relative to how many records you press and sell - though from what I've seen even indie bands tend to sell out their vinyl pressings pretty fast.
My brother's music is streaming on most of the platforms, but I believe he's already made more selling his vinyl.
One of the reasons often cited for why people like buying vinyl is they believe it means more of the money goes to the artist vs streaming, hence it's a way of supporting their favourite artists. Cynics apparently will brush this off as some sort of self-flaggilation, but..no...some people actually do care about these things. Knowing numerous struggling musicians, I certainly appreciate the role vinyl can play in getting some money in to their pockets.
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Ha. I think the question was mainly answered by page 2. (13 members so far seem to agree). But a few seem to keep arguing otherwise, so here we are. Such is the nature of hobbyist forums.
Glad you stuck around for 12 pages. Can we count on your contribution on the 24th page too?
Sigh, if only there was a way to see how long a thread is without reading it.....
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Sigh...
If you didn't read the thread:
Then how do you know the question didn't get a good answer by page 2, yet still opined: "it'll take at least another 12 pages of posts to get to the bottom of it."
?
*(note, the fact the thread continues on, as most threads do, does not entail a good answer had not been given yet).
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Robin L
Master Contributor
Depends on what you're looking for and how much energy you put into crate digging. Managed to get the Creedence Clearwater Revival LPs as white label promos for $1 a pop, about 20 years ago. You won't find Beatles LPs but you might find Macca's "CHOBA B CCCP" filed under international music and priced accordingly. Doubt that those CCR LPs would be findable today as the market has changed.
But a lot of what I was looking for were classical albums. I don't know about the last three years when I stopped dealing with LPs, but I doubt that old classical LPs have increased in value. It was always easy to find used classical LPs in good condition for cheap. Of course, the limitations of LPs are more exposed with music of wide dynamics and plenty of rests between notes. And classical music fans did lead the charge for CDs. Of course, it's even easier to get $1 used CDs, particularly of classical music. Haven't bought physical media for a while now [where would I put it?], but I was encountering boxed sets that went for less than $1 a disc. Case in point, the fabulous Takács Quartet complete set of Beethoven's string quartets, seven CDs, one DVD and one BluRay audio with the whole set on a single disc at a higher bit rate, bought used about four years ago from a Rasputin's in Fresno for $7.98 and tax. I'd say used CDs represent greater value if it's sound you're after [much less likely to have record wear, clicks, pops, etc.].
But if you can get the same sound by streaming . . .
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You mean like taking my replies to you literally?
(You didn't notice I was simply matching your facetious tone??? Even with the obvious
attached?)No problemo. This was never assumed to be a serious conversation. Cheers!
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Multicore
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15 years ago I explained why CDs make you immoral and that goes even more for streaming or download digital. Vinyl is a backlash against rentier economics in music distribution.
dkinric
Addicted to Fun and Learning
@killdozzer , I appreciate your thoughts to my post on the appeal of turntables and vinyl. I think most pertinent reasons were eventually discussed in that long thread. However, the consensus was that unless you already have a lot of records, or it also holds some other appeal to you already, there was no reason to invest in it. I don't, so none of the arguments swayed me. I am very happy with my all digital streaming system and have invested in new speakers, DSP, and room treatment instead, with great results.
You all are welcome to continue to drag a rock across plastic for your music enjoyment if you like, I'll stick with running everything off Roon on my iPad from my couch. Cheers
Ralph_Cramden
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Found Beatles, Stones, CCR, etc often enough five years ago. Sold them to help fund what I was really looking for, the best music America ever produced, Jazz.
Robin L
Master Contributor
You would have loved the record store I in worked at, late 1970's, Ray Avery's Rare Records in Glendale. Ray Avery already made a name for himself as a photographer of Jazz Musicians, had a record store in Glendale that had bonified rare records. Of course the ones Ray Avery focused on were Jazz. He reissued a lot of armed forces [and thus out of copyright] jazz performances, particularly during WWII, transferring transcription discs [he had a specialized turntable for those big discs] to LPs, using gear in the shop. An SME II arm was involved, as I recall. The store had loads of original issue 78s, plenty of Charlie Parker, Slim & Slam, Dizzy, Billie, Bennie and the rest, many in the bins of $1 78s under the LP racks. The really valuable stuff was upstairs. Also a big wall of 45s that Dr Demento raided every other week or so. Stacks of Caruso originals, $10 a throw. Edison cylinders, their players and the needles to go with them your choice of cactus or steel. We were the place to go for Direct to Disc, early Digital [Telarc] and Japanese LPs. There were lots of splendid Verve Japan transfers of their back catalog, also a big trade in used titles, and it seems a looser policy on what could or could not be imported into the US. Lots of the really valuable records were upstairs, sold via blind, international auctions. I remember wrapping up a bunch of records to Australia, stacking and boxing rare 78's to ship overseas. Poo Bah records, Sun Ra's landing pad in Pasadena back then, miraculously had all of Miles Davis' Japanese records of live, very hot, fusion, otherwise unavailable in the states, such as Agharta & Pangaea along with a good representation of the Sun Ra catalog. But if your tastes were more traditional/historical in Jazz, Rare Records was the place to go. All the Hollywood studio pros bought records there.
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