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Blown away by Equalizer APO last night - what's next!

yelloguy

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Joined
Sep 7, 2023
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The best system upgrade I've had in a while! I've been auditioning new speakers, and I bought an external amp to see if I can improve my current setup.

To start at the beginning, I get pretty good sound when I feed FLAC files to my Marantz AVR using DLNA/uPnP. Wide airy sound stage, precise instruments, loud bass. What I don't like is a bit of rattling in my room. Shelves, picture frames on the wall, etc. The bass sounds a bit loose. REW+Umik measurements reveal a couple of "room modes" but I was never quite sure how to handle those. I tried various things with Audyssey, introducing WiiM mini for Equalization, buying a new amp to see if driving my speakers was an issue, etc.

Last couple of weeks I was learning and playing with Equalizer APO with a Windows PC. After lots of reading and experiments, I set up two tests last night. One EQ was automatically generated using REW for 20Hz to 20K. It gave me some 6-7 corrections. And one EQ was manually created by me. Simply looking at the two frequency peaks and reducing them by 5dB with a Q of 5 (I think). After several A/B comparisons (non-blind) I found that I did NOT like the auto generated EQ too much. But the manual one! Man oh man! Absolutely amazing sound. It took away those rattles and the extra loudness in bass and "lifted a veil" from the sound further enhancing clarity. It was stunning. Subtle but very significant.

Now the problem is that I cannot go back. I was well set up with my sources before. Logitech Media Server, DLNA, etc. I have an Apple TV device for playing lossless Apple Music (this gives me the same audio quality as FLAC files via DLNA). But as soon as I listened to these source, all I heard was the rattling (I have to say it happens only on some songs. Most songs don't hit those low frequencies). But I want to listen to all those songs "the right way" now.

With the new EQ, I only have Foobar2000 playing in non-exclusive mode (because I need Equalizer APO). So my music selection gets limited to my own FLAC (and mp3) files. I have Spotify running on Windows which does give me pretty decent sound quality but to raise it up all the way I will have to get CD's and FLAC files because I can't EQ the Apple TV and the FireTV stick, and the DLNA playback etc. Or can I? Any pointers appreciated.

I will look into buying and setting up a raspberry pi with volumio if it can help. Or those $100 mini PC devices on Amazon. Maybe a $200 DAC or something. Or I can continue to use the existing Windows PC tower connected to the AVR via HDMI. (I don't know if I can live with using remote desktop and Foobar2000 though)... How do others do this? TIA.
 
You could add a graphical interface... Peace EQ
PEQ (6).png
 
You can get a cheap Windows laptop for peanuts on eBay. It's got a built in screen, USB ports and APO is a Windows app so it's really good. I just set it so when you close the lid it doesn't go into sleep mode in power settings, just turns the screen off. Can also run Kodi for a media server.
 
Take a look at Dirac. I have it integrated into NAD M10 and it works great. Very nice automatic curve but you can tweak by hand. Runs fine on Windows, I just wanted something non-pc in my livingroom.
 
I'd just buy a WiiM Mini or WiiM Pro and stream my Apple Music, DLNA, etc to it with the AVR connected via Toslink.

You can copy your manual EQ filters stright into the WiiM Home App and they'll be applied to all audio going through the WiiM.
 
I have it installed. I have no use for it though

cheap Windows laptop for peanuts
Is it cheaper than a $100 brand new mini PC on Amazon? And what would you do for software? I guess Kodi can be controlled remotely but it limits your options for playlist management. I have tried Kodi for playing music for many months before giving up.

Dirac. I have it integrated into NAD M10
Can you explain this a bit? Do I have to buy a NAD M10 to get Dirac? I am pretty happy with my hardware setup right now. I can probably get miniDSP to get Dirac in the chain

buy a WiiM Mini or WiiM Pro
When I bought (then returned) WiiM mini I did not see this as an option. I could only find the GEQ there. Old fashioned sliders. I tried fiddling with those and ended up with worse sound not better. WiiM mini had NO value for me beyond the EQ part. I am happy to go back to it if it would take my Equalizer APO EQ settings as is. But for the same money I can get a Windows Mini PC and get infinite customizability. I guess user experience would be easier with WiiM though
 
When I bought (then returned) WiiM mini I did not see this as an option. I could only find the GEQ there. Old fashioned sliders. I tried fiddling with those and ended up with worse sound not better. WiiM mini had NO value for me beyond the EQ part. I am happy to go back to it if it would take my Equalizer APO EQ settings as is. But for the same money I can get a Windows Mini PC and get infinite customizability. I guess user experience would be easier with WiiM though
WiiM have since added PEQ to all of their devices.

You can copy your PEQ values from REW directly in to the WiiM Home App.
 
Can you explain this a bit? Do I have to buy a NAD M10 to get Dirac? I am pretty happy with my hardware setup right now. I can probably get miniDSP to get Dirac in the chain
Any compatible product will be fine. Or just pc. NAD or similar streamer+amp (or streamer+pre) is nice if you want to streamline your set and make things simple but it's not needed.
 
So this is what I was able to get after a bit more tweaking. This is what I have
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 28.00 Hz Gain -12.00 dB Q 1.000
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 147.00 Hz Gain -2.00 dB Q 5.000


Screenshot 2024-07-04 at 7.58.15 PM.png
 
Now you can. With WiiM/PEQ for as little as $69.
Where do you see WiiM mini for $69?

Tbh the PC is working great so far. Allows me to do REW and EQ together. I just installed this client called ampcast https://github.com/rekkyrosso/ampcast/releases/latest that is a great looking interface to my Jellyfin server. It allows Apple Music, YouTube and LastFM as well. I think I will stick with the PC for now. Sound quality is great!
 
So this is what I was able to get after a bit more tweaking. This is what I have
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 28.00 Hz Gain -12.00 dB Q 1.000
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 147.00 Hz Gain -2.00 dB Q 5.000


View attachment 379076
Not bad. But is it the measurement style here why 1kHz+ looks like that?

That dip in 50-70Hz range will rob some punch from the bass but it's not horrible at all and clearly just lowering the 20-50Hz range made things much less messy. I'm sure "a veil was lifted". Main course done, the rest is just tweaking.
 
why 1kHz+ looks like that?

I appreciate you taking the time to double check this!

I am fairly certain that is the well known B&W "bat curve." The 600-800 being the "head" of the bat. I like it this way. I will measure with Audyssey set to Reference later to see if that changes it.

I suspect most people will prefer Audyssey Reference sound (neutral) but I am a big fan of the B&W signature sound. So I don't mess too much with the higher frequencies. I change Audyssey to LR Bypass mode. This gives me similar sound as I get from "Pure Audio" mode but with subwoofer mixed in and the Audyssey timing corrections included.
 
WiiM store on eBay
I must be doing something wrong because I can't find it - not by searching ebay and not by searching google (google is crap this days anyway). Do you have a link or some keywords?
 
Any compatible product will be fine. Or just pc. NAD or similar streamer+amp (or streamer+pre) is nice if you want to streamline your set and make things simple but it's not needed.
I think the wiim mini only has 4 peq filters as opposed to 10 on its bigger siblings.
 
The best system upgrade I've had in a while! I've been auditioning new speakers, and I bought an external amp to see if I can improve my current setup.

To start at the beginning, I get pretty good sound when I feed FLAC files to my Marantz AVR using DLNA/uPnP. Wide airy sound stage, precise instruments, loud bass. What I don't like is a bit of rattling in my room. Shelves, picture frames on the wall, etc. The bass sounds a bit loose. REW+Umik measurements reveal a couple of "room modes" but I was never quite sure how to handle those. I tried various things with Audyssey, introducing WiiM mini for Equalization, buying a new amp to see if driving my speakers was an issue, etc.

Last couple of weeks I was learning and playing with Equalizer APO with a Windows PC. After lots of reading and experiments, I set up two tests last night. One EQ was automatically generated using REW for 20Hz to 20K. It gave me some 6-7 corrections. And one EQ was manually created by me. Simply looking at the two frequency peaks and reducing them by 5dB with a Q of 5 (I think). After several A/B comparisons (non-blind) I found that I did NOT like the auto generated EQ too much. But the manual one! Man oh man! Absolutely amazing sound. It took away those rattles and the extra loudness in bass and "lifted a veil" from the sound further enhancing clarity. It was stunning. Subtle but very significant.

Now the problem is that I cannot go back. I was well set up with my sources before. Logitech Media Server, DLNA, etc. I have an Apple TV device for playing lossless Apple Music (this gives me the same audio quality as FLAC files via DLNA). But as soon as I listened to these source, all I heard was the rattling (I have to say it happens only on some songs. Most songs don't hit those low frequencies). But I want to listen to all those songs "the right way" now.

With the new EQ, I only have Foobar2000 playing in non-exclusive mode (because I need Equalizer APO). So my music selection gets limited to my own FLAC (and mp3) files. I have Spotify running on Windows which does give me pretty decent sound quality but to raise it up all the way I will have to get CD's and FLAC files because I can't EQ the Apple TV and the FireTV stick, and the DLNA playback etc. Or can I? Any pointers appreciated.

I will look into buying and setting up a raspberry pi with volumio if it can help. Or those $100 mini PC devices on Amazon. Maybe a $200 DAC or something. Or I can continue to use the existing Windows PC tower connected to the AVR via HDMI. (I don't know if I can live with using remote desktop and Foobar2000 though)... How do others do this? TIA.
Same here. My CD player will never get used again. Need to finish ripping them all into the PC so that everything goes through Equalizer APO.
 
Same here. My CD player will never get used again. Need to finish ripping them all into the PC so that everything goes through Equalizer APO.

Please share how you are playing them. I'm still struggling with playback solutions. Ampcast and Spotify are working well and they sound great. WiiM is currently OOS on the eBay store but I'll order it when I see one. I have Foobar2000 but I can't configure it to my taste - it has infinite options and I'm sure it will do all that I want. But I don't have the time to set it up.

In any case, doing the remote desktop into the PC and finding and playing music with my laptop/tablet is NOT the best experience. To make matters worse, Windows kills the HDMI sound for some reason. Funny enough, it comes back after waiting for 5-15 minutes, or I have to walk over and disconnect the HDMI and reconnect it behind the PC. And that only works 3 times out of 5. Powering off the AVR and powering it on brings it back some times. Fiddly...

And then when I am watching TV (Vivo music channels) or a movie, the boom-iness comes back... Maybe I just need to turn the sub gain down for movies
 
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