Blimey, I may agree with Darko

[TonyJZX]

eh... darko had me at ikea door stoppers

 

[AdrianusG]

Exactly this. I have ripped a few tracks from some DVDs I have, and the quality is quite amazing, even when downsampled from 48kHz to 44.1kHz.

The resulting sound is more dynamic and clearly sounds better than the equivalent CD.

Similarly, I recently bought a Dire Straits remaster, which used the SBM process from Sony - and the quality is better than the original CD I bought about 20 years ago.

Ironically, I ripped the vinyl recording (Dire Straits) which sounded better than the original CD - I just think that over the years, audio enthusiasts have been taken for a ride with poor CD mastering. Even many of the so called "HD" tracks don't sound that good (mostly because they are upsampled from the original CD.....)

Exactly, I don't trust any of these so called "Remasters" anymore

 

[DVDdoug]

Most of what he's saying is true and "makes sense". But, there is a flaw in the original "DR" measurement and it's not clear if that has been fixed in the "MkII" version.

I don't have that software but the website says it can do EBU R128 Loudness Range (usually "LRA") and I think that's a better measure of "dynamic range". LRA is supposed to measure the loudness of different parts of the recording... It doesn't just look at the raw numbers. But, dynamic range or "dynamic contrast" can't really be described-defined as a single number.

The flaw is: DR is often measured as the crest factor (peak to RMS level). The process of cutting and playing a record introduces phase shifts (like an all-pass filter) that end-up making some peaks higher and some peaks lower. Those new short-term peaks aren't perceived as louder or quieter and it doesn't affect the sound of the dynamic range. The peaks aren't really "louder", it's just that the frequency components are slightly shifted-around in-time and they add-up differently. But the new higher peaks do make a higher crest factor and a "better" DR measurement.

It seems to be worse with "artificially" compressed/limited productions and it might boost the DR by 1 or 2 dB.

MP3 does something similar... If you make an MP3 from a CD the MP3 often has higher peaks. Sometimes the peaks go over 0dB, which is possible with MP3, but not on CDs. So the MP3 often has a better DR measurement, again without changing the sound of the dynamics.

 

[raif71]

The link in your post won't work for me. I get a 403 error.
For ripping blu-ray, you can use MakeMKV.
For ripping multichannel SACD, you can use the Sony blu-ray player hack from MikeyFresh. You can find links to instructions on the ASR website. If you need the link, I can dig it out.

I get that error too but what you can do afterwards is to remove the "/" or slash at the end of the link and press enter. The url should load then. I see that some have figured this out too

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Most of what he's saying is true and "makes sense". But, there is a flaw in the original "DR" measurement and it's not clear if that has been fixed in the "MkII" version.

I don't have that software but the website says it can do EBU R128 Loudness Range (usually "LRA") and I think that's a better measure of "dynamic range". LRA is supposed to measure the loudness of different parts of the recording... It doesn't just look at the raw numbers. But, dynamic range or "dynamic contrast" can't really be described-defined as a single number.

The flaw is: DR is often measured as the crest factor (peak to RMS level). The process of cutting and playing a record introduces phase shifts (like an all-pass filter) that end-up making some peaks higher and some peaks lower. Those new short-term peaks aren't perceived as louder or quieter and it doesn't affect the sound of the dynamic range. The peaks aren't really "louder", it's just that the frequency components are slightly shifted-around in-time and they add-up differently. But the new higher peaks do make a higher crest factor and a "better" DR measurement.

It seems to be worse with "artificially" compressed/limited productions and it might boost the DR by 1 or 2 dB.

MP3 does something similar... If you make an MP3 from a CD the MP3 often has higher peaks. Sometimes the peaks go over 0dB, which is possible with MP3, but not on CDs. So the MP3 often has a better DR measurement, again without changing the sound of the dynamics.

Bravo! This post should be linked to whenever discussions about music and DR come up.

EBU R128 is best, sensible way to do the analysis. Using the loudness war's DR score should be deprecated.

 

[ZolaIII]

Yeah, the childish little f*ck barred any referral from ASR

You have to copy the URL, paste it in a new window/tab, then it will work.

We should actually be thankful for that. Really not worth it liesen to his rent about what whose been discussed hire many times and to much greater depth and in details. Reinventing hot water doesn't make it either anything else or more hot.
I think we should return favor and delate anything which point to him or his content hire.

 

[JeremyFife]

It's happening again

Hi-fi show music is still a broken record – and, therefore, so am I | Darko.Audio

Stop me if you think that you've heard this one before.

darko.audio

Links to Darko don't work from here, but you can copy the URL into a general browser window.

Summary: the music played at Hi-fi shows and events hasn't changed in years, is deeply conservative and puts of diversity and new people.

It's an age since I went to a show, but this resonates.

Without new people and new music this hobby stagnates... old, wealthy, white guys listening to Dianna Krall.
(I'm old, male and white and I don't mind some Krall but there is so much more to music!)

How does this change?

 

[Waxx]

I even had it in shops i visted. I wanted to test a speaker with my choice of music (electronic dub) but the salesman refused it as it's not good music to test speakers. That that music is way more challenging than Diana Krall or Pink Floyd for speakers, did not matter to him.

I did not buy anything there of course. I went elsewhere...

 

[Mart68]

It's happening again

Hi-fi show music is still a broken record – and, therefore, so am I | Darko.Audio

Stop me if you think that you've heard this one before.

darko.audio

Links to Darko don't work from here, but you can copy the URL into a general browser window.

Summary: the music played at Hi-fi shows and events hasn't changed in years, is deeply conservative and puts of diversity and new people.

It's an age since I went to a show, but this resonates.

Without new people and new music this hobby stagnates... old, wealthy, white guys listening to Dianna Krall.
(I'm old, male and white and I don't mind some Krall but there is so much more to music!)

How does this change?

At last few shows I attended almost every demo had a streaming facility and would play requests.

When they do refuse, they always say something diplomatic like 'If you come back later when the room is less busy, I'll see what I can do.'

There's a surprising number of youngsters at these things - although they are and will remain the minority. They always look wealthy though.

I suppose there's not that many wealthy youngsters anyway, and those who are into hi-fi enough to attend a show are a tiny sub-set.

 

[Rednaxela]

It's happening again

Hi-fi show music is still a broken record – and, therefore, so am I | Darko.Audio

Stop me if you think that you've heard this one before.

darko.audio

Links to Darko don't work from here, […]

Hi-fi show music is still a broken record – and, therefore, so am I | Darko.Audio

Stop me if you think that you've heard this one before.

darko.audio

 

[Mart68]

Isn't he missing the point that people want to hear music they know so they can compare with what they have at home?

I always ask for Steely Dan (if it's some speakers I might be interested in). This has the added bonus of exposing any youngsters present to music that is actually good.

 

[Purité Audio]

I always ask for Billy Eilish (if it's some speakers I might be interested in). This has the added bonus of exposing any old men present to music that has bass.
Keith

 

[Svet Angelov]

I even had it in shops i visted. I wanted to test a speaker with my choice of music (electronic dub) but the salesman refused it as it's not good music to test speakers. That that music is way more challenging than Diana Krall or Pink Floyd for speakers, did not matter to him.

I did not buy anything there of course. I went elsewhere...

Hey there fellow dub lover.

I'd argue that electronica is **often** not as dynamic as other (acoustic) genres. Though it is definitely strenuous for speakers with its deep,sometimes multilayered bass.

That said, the moment a salesperson tells you that the music you like is not "good enough" to test the speakers you are interested in, the only right move is to give a big smile and leave, never to return again...

 

[Audiofire]

Perfect that he self-censored from ASR.

Mastering matters more than format

A false analogy is an informal fallacy.

 

[Svet Angelov]

Billy Eilish

I threw up in my mouth a little LOL

.. I'd still buy half your stock if given the chance (and money)..but I'd skip her music faster than Bob Dylan (and that's saying something)

 

[Waxx]

Hey there fellow dub lover.

I'd argue that electronica is **often** not as dynamic as other (acoustic) genres. Though it is definitely strenuous for speakers with its deep,sometimes multilayered bass.

That said, the moment a salesperson tells you that the music you like is not "good enough" to test the speakers you are interested in, the only right move is to give a big smile and leave, never to return again...

I always check speakers with a variation of music styles, my go to songs are very well defined, and go from Bush Chemists (the electronic dub I was talking about) over King Tubby (jamaican dub) to Fela Kuti (afrobeat from the 1970), Stevie Wonder to classical music (Carmina Burana from Karl Orf in the version of Amina Eterna & Collegium Vocale Gent). Never judge speaker on one style only if you can't measure them troughly. Each music part i use shows me different things, and on dynamics in the music and how the speaker handles it the Carmina Burana recording is ruthless in it's judgement....

 

[MaxwellsEq]

This has the added bonus of exposing any old men present to music that has bass.

I wonder how many HiFi setups have never had deep extended bass played through them.

 

[Purité Audio]

I threw up in my mouth a little LOL

.. I'd still buy half your stock if given the chance (and money)..but I'd skip her music faster than Bob Dylan (and that's saying something)

The third track , I think it’s the third on her first album has this distorted bass noise, when I first heard it ( just after measuring some new speakers and having applied a few filters ) I was horrified I thought what have I done, how have I messed up but it is just distorted ( unless I have really messed up).
Keith

 

[Greenman]

the only right move is to give a big smile and leave, never to return again..

I’d say the right move is to call them a sanctimonious narrow minded t**t that will never see an any of your money…and leave, eventually then they may change their ways!

in some ways shows are somewhat hamstrung, they need to keep things reasonable mainstream so as not to put off the casual punter (much Rap is avoided for language for example). I do hear plenty of ‘modern’ female vocals at at these things (Lana Del Ray etc). A few months ago Orchard Audio shared there demo playlist here and it’s a great selection of some fairly recent artists mixed with older stuff, ok dominated by femail vocals But well worth a listen for those with Qobuz.

i hope Orchard don’t mind me posting a link again here:

Open Qobuz

open.qobuz.com

 

[JeremyFife]

Perfect that he self-censored from ASR.


A false analogy is an informal fallacy.

Ooh, nice ... I had to look that up;
"a persuasive technique in which the fact that two things are alike in one respect leads to the invalid conclusion that they must be alike in some other respect"

All I mean, as I'm pretty sure you know, is that I'd rather have a well mastered analogue copy than a compressed, brickwalled and mangled digital one.
No argument that the digital format is superior, or that anything 'higher resolution ' than 16/44.1 is redundant.
All other things being equal (there's a fancy phrase for that too), shite mastering can reduce the quality of a recording.
Almost impossible to tell in advance, just a gripe about the commercial pressures that push recordings down to a lowest common denominator.
Peace