Beyerdynamic T1 Review (V2 headphone)

[Feelas]

1 to 5% in the lowest frequencies (mainly 2nd harm or 3rd harm) is not really audible as (nasty) distortion.

OTOH doesn't it create the familiar (and often referenced) feeling of "boominess & general lack of control" in bass?

 

[Jimbob54]

Well, can't say I'm surprised. The T1 1st and 2nd gen aren't terrible headphones, but I never understood why they should cost 1000€.

I picked mine up 2nd hand for half that. The question is, is the T1 the best Beyer (objectively)? There is a theme emerging and i would be keen to see some of their other stalwarts similarly tested. If the high distortion theme applies across the range (which I think it will) then users who like to crank up the volume would be advised to give the brand a miss.

 

[Robbo99999]

It's a pity another Beyerdynamic headphone has had a severe beating on this site, but it is what it is! I don't like the frequency response either, the 5kHz sharp dip is not really fully EQ'able, and I don't like the sharp 8kHz peak.....but then you have the distortion problems elucidated in the measurements & also in the listening tests....one of the end results being you can't EQ up the bass sucessfully....poor performance for a flagship (or any headphone with pretensions of being decent). Damn, does this mean more Youtube vids or was that only related to love/hate for one Beyerdynamic model, guess we'll see!

 

[Robbo99999]

FYI I started with that shelving filter like he has but distortion was even worse so I made it a PEQ.

That's also my approach when EQ'ing the bass on my headphones, I've found peak filters on the bass sound better than a Low Shelf Boost that persists all the way down to 0Hz. Not that my headphones have distortion problems (certainly not the NAD HP50), but still sounds better to me rather than leaving a Low Shelf Boost persisting all the way down to 0Hz.

 

[Feelas]

That's also my approach when EQ'ing the bass on my headphones, I've found peak filters on the bass sound better than a Low Shelf Boost that persists all the way down to 0Hz. Not that my headphones have distortion problems (certainly not the NAD HP50), but still sounds better to me rather than leaving a Low Shelf Boost persisting all the way down to 0Hz.

On some models, you might be even better off adding a high-pass filter above the major THD range to get more tighter (lighter in THD) bass in ranges, where it matters mostly, tighter 50-60Hz is worth cutting the sub-bass, I think. Like, cutting anything below 40Hz w/ a fast-dropping filter.

 

[Moonhead]

Another one Beyer the Dust.
Sad really.

Thx Amir.

 

[3125b]

I picked mine up 2nd hand for half that.

Indeed, they can be had reasonably cheap used, I think I paid about 150€ for my T90.
The old Beyers (seeing the 1990 that doesn't go for the new ones, oh well) are solidly made and easily repairable. Plus the T90 at least (doesn't really apply the the DT XX0 Pro versions with their high clamping force) is one of the most comfortable headphones I've ever had.

 

[192kbps]

The T1 ii is literally a joke.
But do you know what's funnier?
T1 iii is even worse.

I think Beyerdynamic's best headphone is DT860.

 

[martin900]

I don't understand why they push on those velour earpads so much, this is where the most bass energy gets lost. I have Amiron Wireless and they had zero low end power with the stock pads which looked roughly the same as on the T1 (and are probably the same). With (p)leather pads the difference in tonal balance is night and day.

 

[staticV3]

Just word of advice.
When hedaphones can't be pushed up because it introduces distortion instead you push everything else down to EQ and effect is the same minus the distortion and the fact you need a little more juice to drive them.
Something is wrong with this measurements obviously to big variations to all other measurements of same one's, either those are defective or something else.
Best regards.

Here's my understanding of additive vs subtractive EQ. If I'm wrong, then please do correct me.
As far as distortion is concerned, your headphone does not care about the way you design your EQ. All that matters to it is the frequency response and volume you ask of it. A way to get the same end result, but with magically less distortion does not exist.
Regarding the digital side of things including headroom, I once again see no difference between additive and subtractive EQ.
Let's say you have a 10dB dip in frequency response that you wish to fill in.
You can either reduce everything but the dip by 10dB, losing you 10dB of headroom in the process.
Or you can boost the dip by 10dB and add a -10dB pre amp to avoid clipping, losing you 10dB of headroom in the process.
Either way, there will be no difference in headroom or distortion.

 

[Robbo99999]

On some models, you might be even better off adding a high-pass filter above the major THD range to get more tighter (lighter in THD) bass in ranges, where it matters mostly, tighter 50-60Hz is worth cutting the sub-bass, I think. Like, cutting anything below 40Hz w/ a fast-dropping filter.

That's a good idea, although one problem with sharp High Pass Filters is they change phase so significantly that they can change the behaviour of the bass in the frequencies above the cutoff point. I once experimented with some sharp High Pass Filters on my K702 and I noticed that it's inclusion caused the Clipping Meter in Peace to activate in certain bass rich songs even though I had enough negative preamp to cover the largest boost on the Total EQ Curve...getting rid of the High Pass Filter or using a slower rolloff High Pass got rid of the clipping. After discussing with a few members on here we concluded that the large changes in phase caused by sharp high pass filter would time delay certain peaks of bass in the song so that sometimes the supposed seperate peaks would overlap, thereby amplifying each other - and therefore pushing it above the digital clipping limit. That was my first prompt to go from using Low Shelf Boost Filters (along with High Pass Filters) to a move to using just Peak Filters to boost the bass to allow for a gradual/natural rolloff of the bass without the need for a High Pass Filter to remove the boosted bass. I guess you're referring to using a High Pass Filter to reduce bass below the stock level produced by the headphone, so I think that would be applicable in headphones very sensitive to bass distortion problems, but I think I'd choose a slower High Pass Filter rather than a super sharp one.

 

[escalibur]

The issue here is that the wires are soldered (and does not seem to be a spectacular job) and then heat-shrink wrapping puts strain on the wires.
A classic engineering error.

Indeed. Such a shame because I really like my DT 1990 Pros in terms of sound and physical quality in general.

Seems to be more common these days - I've read a fair amount of stories about failing Beyers in the last weeks. But then again, they are common here.
In your picture the worksmanship looks really bad, way worse than the older (and cheaper) Beyers I have taken apart. Looks almost as bad as my HE-35X

I really hate when they save costs on parts like these. Seriously I would much rather trade packaing parts and nonsense around it for better soldering and a bit thicker cables.

Now I have to try to solder them in hope that that will even fix the origial issue.

ps. And for the record these are $500 headphones.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Ouch. I sure am glad that I opted for a Clear instead of a T1.
While the FR is expected for a Beyer can, I find the distortion to be quite disappointing.

 

[Feelas]

Here's my understanding of additive vs subtractive EQ. If I'm wrong, then please do correct me.
As far as distortion is concerned, your headphone does not care about the way you design your EQ. All that matters to it is the frequency response and volume you ask of it. A way to get the same end result, but with magically less distortion does not exist.
Regarding the digital side of things including headroom, I once again see no difference between additive and subtractive EQ.
Let's say you have a 10dB dip in frequency response that you wish to fill in.
You can either reduce everything but the dip by 10dB, losing you 10dB of headroom in the process.
Or you can boost the dip by 10dB and add a -10dB pre amp to avoid clipping, losing you 10dB of headroom in the process.
Either way, there will be no difference in headroom or distortion.

I believe subtractive vs additive is an artifact from analogue EQ age.

That's a good idea, although one problem with sharp High Pass Filters is they change phase so significantly that they can change the behaviour of the bass in the frequencies above the cutoff point. I once experimented with some sharp High Pass Filters on my K702 and I noticed that it's inclusion caused the Clipping Meter in Peace to activate in certain bass rich songs even though I had enough negative preamp to cover the largest boost on the Total EQ Curve...getting rid of the High Pass Filter or using a slower rolloff High Pass got rid of the clipping. After discussing with a few members on here we concluded that the large changes in phase caused by sharp high pass filter would time delay certain peaks of bass in the song so that sometimes the supposed seperate peaks would overlap, thereby amplifying each other - and therefore pushing it above the digital clipping limit. That was my first prompt to go from using Low Shelf Boost Filters (along with High Pass Filters) to a move to using just Peak Filters to boost the bass to allow for a gradual/natural rolloff of the bass without the need for a High Pass Filter to remove the boosted bass. I guess you're referring to using a High Pass Filter to reduce bass below the stock level produced by the headphone, so I think that would be applicable in headphones very sensitive to bass distortion problems, but I think I'd choose a slower High Pass Filter rather than a super sharp one.

Seems reasonable to use less sharp filters, since the interest is mostly in lowering the distorted bass levels so much that it doesn't spray the harmonics and not in changing the perceived timbre.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I think Beyerdynamic's best headphone is DT860.

I have never had a chance to listen to a pair. But have heard all the good things. I really wish I had bought a pair in 2015 when there was still some second hands around. Some also says good things about DT831. Do you have some comments on that?

 

[solderdude]

OTOH doesn't it create the familiar (and often referenced) feeling of "boominess & general lack of control" in bass?

That is generally caused by higher output resistance amplifiers. If anything it results in hearing a bit more overtones as if the bass is 'plucked' a bit harder.

Another one Beyer the Dust.

They all will, the only possible exception might be the DT770-80 which is purpose built for loud listening. Maybe even the DT1350 might surprise.
When the treble peak is removed they all sound fine to me even at comfortable loud levels.

 

[JohnYang1997]

That is generally caused by higher output resistance amplifiers. If anything it results in hearing a bit more overtones as if the bass is 'plucked' a bit harder.



They all will, the only possible exception might be the DT770-80 which is purpose built for loud listening. Maybe even the DT1350 might surprise.
When the treble peak is removed they all sound fine to me even at comfortable loud levels.

I think dt150 dt250 would be fine especially comparing to this.

 

[Thomas_A]

I think dt150 dt250 would be fine especially comparing to this.

Agreed. A DT150 with DT100 velour pads is my main headphone.

 

[Feelas]

That is generally caused by higher output resistance amplifiers. If anything it results in hearing a bit more overtones as if the bass is 'plucked' a bit harder.

Well, but the harmonic distortion itself can mask the natural harmonics w/ the same loudness in the 2nd harmonic affected ranges, can't it? You could account for loss of details: in example, in 120Hz range if 60Hz 2nd harmonic is over the top... and I think that -40/-50dB relative SPL is enough to cause masking, not necessarily shrilness or unpleasant sound, just relatively low detailed; yet I don't have anything, really, to show for that, just thinking.

 

[solderdude]

Well, but the harmonic distortion itself can mask the natural harmonics w/ the same loudness in the 2nd harmonic affected ranges, can't it?

They will add. The addition will be very small though and have to be in phase to add.
When a bass note has a fundamental of say 50Hz at -20dB and a second harmonic of -10dB then a signal of -30dB will hardly increase the -10dB level.