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Beta-test: DeltaWave Null Comparison software

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I gave this a go (v1.0.10b) and started having scaling issues as soon as I pressed that fonts button. After trying scaling options with the Win 10 DPI settings within program "properties", and going back and forth several times, I've finally got it to open correctly. I've chose "scaling chosen by "application"". That makes things a little bit larger and easier for my old eyes to see. If the large font button within DeltaWave worked correctly, I'd use it, but I dare not touch it unless/until it works correctly on Win 10. BTW, my system scaling is set to the recommended (according to windows) 150%. 1920x1080 panel, not sure what font size.
 

Blumlein 88

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@pkane and @audere

audere's post got me to looking at some other possibilities. I found one using System (enhanced) scaling in Program properties that works great. Looks good, and you can switch between large and small fonts with the Aa setting with no problems.

Just following what they did on this page.
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-...g-enabling-system-enhanced-feature-windows-10

After this change the first time I ran Deltawave the page was too large to show it all on screen. I resized it to fit and after that close and open with everything looking great. It also goes full screen and back with proper sizing. Smiles all around I hope. :)

Dwave proper view.png
 
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Blumlein 88

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I gave this a go (v1.0.10b) and started having scaling issues as soon as I pressed that fonts button. After trying scaling options with the Win 10 DPI settings within program "properties", and going back and forth several times, I've finally got it to open correctly. I've chose "scaling chosen by "application"". That makes things a little bit larger and easier for my old eyes to see. If the large font button within DeltaWave worked correctly, I'd use it, but I dare not touch it unless/until it works correctly on Win 10. BTW, my system scaling is set to the recommended (according to windows) 150%. 1920x1080 panel, not sure what font size.
@audere

BTW, noticed you just joined and your first post.

Welcome to the ASR forums. Glad to have you here. :)
 

Blumlein 88

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...... BTW, is that a picture of Yvonne De Carlo for your avatar?
Yes it is. I've used various pictures of her for avatars on this forum. I think you are the first one who knew who she was though several have asked.
 

Blumlein 88

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Perhaps the files were too large. Not sure what the limits are. Will look for smaller test files.
It is suggested to use files of two or three minutes or less. Though I've used it on some larger ones and so have some others. If the differences in timing get to be too large it can do this. Also I think pkane said you should have the files aligned to within 10 seconds or less not to upset it. You can try trimming off a few seconds on one end or the other of the compare file.
 
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It is suggested to use files of two or three minutes or less. Though I've used it on some larger ones and so have some others. If the differences in timing get to be too large it can do this. Also I think pkane said you should have the files aligned to within 10 seconds or less not to upset it. You can try trimming off a few seconds on one end or the other of the compare file.
Thanks Blumlein88; the first files were 24/192 and 24/96 FLAC. Then I tried 16/44 FLAC of maybe 4-5 minutes. Still gave my PC major convulsions. At one point DeltaWave was using about 2.5 GB of RAM. Maybe I need a newer PC, LOL!! Will have to find some suitable test files and read the manual. Too bad Audio DiffMaker's test files are proprietary format.
 

PierreV

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Thank you, Pierre! Are you using the latest version (.8 or later)? The reason I'm asking I made some changes in how WASAPI and ASIO drivers were handled, so the issue with audio card may have been fixed already, or maybe I actually broke it with these changes. I'd like to know which :)
v1.0.10 (sorry for failing to mention that)

on the windows resize issue, lowering FFT size/window/steps helps if you restart the whole process with "match", but not otherwise. One option to address the issue could be to immediately process the resize message, display a default "Computing..." bitmap, launch the compute heavy (scaling/smoothing?) operation in the background/on its own thread then update the canvas when done.

and playing with parameters I noticed that

- if the settings window is minimized, it keeps focus and the main interface doesn't respond to inputs anymore. Expected behavior would either be parameters applied and focus back to main or a message such as "settings changed, please restart analysis" or something to that effect.
- the borders of the settings windows are a bit asymetric

1551951361036.png

- and its border behavior is a bit puzzling at times (unanchored?)
1551951467497.png


but those minor issues don't diminish the usefulness a bit. :) Deltawave already showed me things nothing else had shown me, very grateful for that!
 

PierreV

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And decided to stress the plotting library a bit, which led to this (not your fault ofc). RAM usage peaked at 15GB then boom. Not an issue, this was intentional, but if you are planning a release to non-technical users at a later stage, it may be a good idea to either prevent them from loading too large files or at least catch the error. The computer has 32GB and processor usage peaked at 15% so that isn't an issue of limited resources. And fwiw, I tend to run into those issues with other libraries as well as I like big fancy visualizations ;)

1551952409759.png
 

pkane

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I gave this a go (v1.0.10b) and started having scaling issues as soon as I pressed that fonts button. After trying scaling options with the Win 10 DPI settings within program "properties", and going back and forth several times, I've finally got it to open correctly. I've chose "scaling chosen by "application"". That makes things a little bit larger and easier for my old eyes to see. If the large font button within DeltaWave worked correctly, I'd use it, but I dare not touch it unless/until it works correctly on Win 10. BTW, my system scaling is set to the recommended (according to windows) 150%. 1920x1080 panel, not sure what font size.
All that fonts button is doing is setting the default font for the program to a larger size. The rest.... is Microsoft magic :) I'm in the process of adding a font selector, so you'll be able to chose one that might work better than the larger font I picked that seems to work fine on my versions of Windows.
 

pkane

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I tried loading my first 2 files with this error. I'm probably doing something wrong:

View attachment 23182
Some thoughts on memory:
  • If the whole track doesn't fit in memory, it's easy to cut out a part of it without any surgery. I recommend keeping about 2 minutes, or 120 seconds. Just set Trim Front and/or End on the track to the number of seconds you want to remove. If your file is 5 minutes, I'd trim about 180 seconds from it. For example:

    1551963063967.png


  • Plots are some of the biggest memory hogs, especially the ones showing both waveforms. You can improve the behavior by hiding plots that you don't need by unchecking them in the Settings menu. Otherwise, all plots that are visible will be consuming memory when updated:
    1551963763837.png


  • You need much more memory for hi-res tracks, since there are more samples per second. For example, a 5 minute stereo 24/192K file will require 115 million samples in memory. Since each sample is represented by double-floating point which is 8 bytes, the total is almost 1GB to just load the samples. Then, consider that each waveform chart has to have a copy of all of these samples, then each chart adds 1GB to this total. And this doesn't include all the temporary memory needed to compute FFTs, cross-correlation, etc. You can see why smaller files might work better :)

  • Just to confirm that this has to do with memory, you can upload here (or send it to me by PM) the log file after duplicating this problem. Logs can be accessed from the Help->Logging->View Log menu.
 
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pkane

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v1.0.10 (sorry for failing to mention that)

on the windows resize issue, lowering FFT size/window/steps helps if you restart the whole process with "match", but not otherwise. One option to address the issue could be to immediately process the resize message, display a default "Computing..." bitmap, launch the compute heavy (scaling/smoothing?) operation in the background/on its own thread then update the canvas when done.

and playing with parameters I noticed that

- if the settings window is minimized, it keeps focus and the main interface doesn't respond to inputs anymore. Expected behavior would either be parameters applied and focus back to main or a message such as "settings changed, please restart analysis" or something to that effect.
- the borders of the settings windows are a bit asymetric

View attachment 23187
- and its border behavior is a bit puzzling at times (unanchored?)
View attachment 23188

but those minor issues don't diminish the usefulness a bit. :) Deltawave already showed me things nothing else had shown me, very grateful for that!
Thanks for the update! There should be a spinner that pops up around the chart when it's doing major repainting. Unfortunately that part is done by the plot library and can't be done in the background, so it will block all other interactions with DeltaWave until it's completed.

The Settings window is just a collection of floating panels, you can resize it to be bigger or smaller than the total size of these panels, it's up to you. They'll rearrange themselves to try to fit into whatever space you give them, but if they don't fit, scroll-bars will show up.
 

pkane

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And decided to stress the plotting library a bit, which led to this (not your fault ofc). RAM usage peaked at 15GB then boom. Not an issue, this was intentional, but if you are planning a release to non-technical users at a later stage, it may be a good idea to either prevent them from loading too large files or at least catch the error. The computer has 32GB and processor usage peaked at 15% so that isn't an issue of limited resources. And fwiw, I tend to run into those issues with other libraries as well as I like big fancy visualizations ;)

View attachment 23189
Yes, please see my post on memory: plots are actually some of the biggest memory hogs, especially the ones showing both waveforms. You can improve the behavior by hiding plots that you don't need by unchecking them in the Settings menu. Otherwise, all plots that are visible will be consuming memory when updated.
 

pkane

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My latest attempt at fixing Windows sizing issues: DeltaWave v1.0.11

The changes are as follows:
  • Added the ability to choose any font/font-size for display. Click the View->Choose Fonts menu, or right-click the Aa button to choose. Click Apply in the font window to try out different fonts without exiting. Click OK to confirm your selection when ready, otherwise the original font setting will be restored on exit
    1551983091007.png
    Once you select a font, you can always switch between the original, small-font default, and the new one you picked by clicking the Aa button, just as before

  • Modified frequency axis labeler to include more decimal places. May not look as neat, but should be more accurate with no duplicates.
Thank you for everyone's input! You are the best bunch of beta-testers I've ever worked with :)
 

PierreV

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Oh, one more thing I noticed, comparing a file to itself... the program (or the library) seems to run into number accuracy issues on delta phase and delta spectra (but not on delta wave)... The axis auto-scaling makes it appear worse than it is (insignificant) but that was a bit surprising at first. Results have some variability from run to run which seems to indicate that an approximation method is hitting number representation limits.

1551984498125.png

1551984545585.png

1551984581509.png

1551984653713.png
 

pkane

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Oh, one more thing I noticed, comparing a file to itself... the program (or the library) seems to run into number accuracy issues on delta phase and delta spectra (but not on delta wave)... The axis auto-scaling makes it appear worse than it is (insignificant) but that was a bit surprising at first. Results have some variability from run to run which seems to indicate that an approximation method is hitting number representation limits.

View attachment 23201
View attachment 23202
View attachment 23203
View attachment 23204
The plot resolution will zoom in to show the tiniest details, so pay attention to scale! ;)

As there are many calculations being performed on floating-point numbers, there will always be tiny errors at the end. If you see variability between multiple runs, you may need to turn off the Dither option in Settings. That will introduce a random component (TPDF dither) in the least significant bit.
 

PierreV

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Yes, with dither I get up to 10° of phase differences with some identical files, the above examples were without dither.
 

pkane

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Yes, with dither I get up to 10° of phase differences with some identical files, the above examples were without dither.
The Y axis labeler only goes down to about 4 decimal places in version .11. I'll change it so it shows more, just for you :)

Here's the difference in my tests comparing a file to itself, with better labels:
1551987740278.png
 

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