dasdoing
Major Contributor
any speaker in a room with absorbtion in the first reflection points
This place is alive and your question is weird, very weird. Not dozens of answers in the hour, it's painful.That place is pretty dead.
I’ll take your insulting response that my question is weird as a compliment coming from you. Did your momma not hug you enough? Don’t be a dick! The internet is full of people like you.This place is alive and your question is weird, very weird. Not dozens of answers in the hour, it's painful.
Any studio monitor in any price range do the job.
the keys: Room, listening distance, spl level and Bias.
Gearspace.com - View Single Post - Best Speakers (Studio Monitors) to Hear Reverb
Post 15821148 -Forum for professional and amateur recording engineers to share techniques and advice.gearspace.com
I'd have to agree with this completely.I think a lot of the answers above did answered your question, if you found genelec and neumann sounds dry and the vocals stopped without reverb, it likely means in the recording the reverb didn't exist, a speaker adding reverb into the mix when you try to mix based on that isn't a good idea for studio
In my personal experience, if I wanted to listen to reverb tails, I'd be using Stax earspeakers. Nothing else I've heard or used was so definitive about musical rests. When it comes to monitoring with speakers, the room seems to be the bigger issue.Maybe you missed the "Studio Monitors" part...? For mixing and mastering, you need to hear reverb tails, delays and other FX well.
Best response yet. Dry is exactly how I describe them. Thanks!most neumann and genelec follow the target to have constant directivity, but not a wide dispersion, due to small baffles and waveguides.
Neumann and Genelecs are nice speakers, but actually more on the analytic and dry side.
If they reveal less or the right amount of reverb referring to the source, I can not say.
Could be the cause, but I would really suggest the OP to try eq and boost the mids for a try if it magically turn the dry speaker to one with clear reverb. That’s how science do imo. If in same room you change a complete new speaker at same spot, you have a ton of variables so nothing really conclusive can be made, say if shelving the mids don’t have any effects then try say use the ATC and eq it to anechoic flat as the Genelecs and see if it suddenly gets dry, so one can know if it’s more likely the FR boost or the dispersion or cardioid speaker in effectThis is a bit of a counter intuitive subject. The less reverb you have in the room, the more of the reverb from the actual recording can be heard. @Duke's answer is pretty much on the money.
As we've been developing our cardioid speakers, the feeling of "more reverb" is actually one of the factors that are interestingly inherently different from a traditional speaker. Again due to the above. Instinctively you'd expect less reverb, but you get more. Less reflections activated in the room = easier to hear the reverb from the actual recording.
So something like the DutchDutch 8C (which is cardioid and have even off-axis respons) would probably be interesting for you to test.
I do understand what you are talking about. Adding reverb to a recorded track is a really fine line between too much and too little, you need to trust what you hear and the reverb you add needs to translate to other speakers/systems without sounding over the top. Some speakers are just not good tools for this, I don't know why that is?Best response yet. Dry is exactly how I describe them. Thanks!
waveguides hurt more than they help
All the speakers I tried with waveguides delivered a pretty poor sense of space and reverb that was too dry, so 8030,kh120, 20301a.
All the ones I have that don't have waveguides deliver a better sense of space, reverb sounds right to me, atc scm12, classix ii and amiga diy, and bagby mandolin.
Tried them all in different rooms and the effect was the same.
I'm a broken record at this point but I think waveguides hurt more than they help, I am prepared to die on this hill lol.
Less reflections activated in the room = easier to hear the reverb from the actual recording.
I'm sorry to see you die on the hill, but we use coax drivers which are inherently waveguides, and the sense of space and reverb combined with imaging / stereo perspective is one of the strengths that are most often mentioned. So I don't think this is an inherent problem with waveguides.
You need consistent off-axis response for this to work properly, which is actually one of the strong points of a waveguide if done correctly. With a coax it's even easier of course, but even with a separate tweeter with a waveguide, one of the main benefits is matching directivity with the midrange driver.
I suspect your experience is due to other reasons than the waveguide.
imho..Waveguides can offer a particular type of imaging, but I've never considered imaging as strength, they always make sacrifices there to my ears. Non-waveguided tweeters generally offer wider dispersion and one that narrows towards the top and the result is a more defined image that expands out beyond the speaker. For example the center image on my amiga's is very strong, you can't ignore it, while the 8030c effectively has no center for the most part.
We must hear the same way, cause I tend to agree with you.All the speakers I tried with waveguides delivered a pretty poor sense of space and reverb that was too dry, so 8030,kh120, 20301a.
All the ones I have that don't have waveguides deliver a better sense of space, reverb sounds right to me, atc scm12, classix ii and amiga diy, and bagby mandolin.
Tried them all in different rooms and the effect was the same.
I'm a broken record at this point but I think waveguides hurt more than they help, I am prepared to die on this hill lol.
wonders how you setup your speakers... pointing towards your MLP? toe-in? coz back when I tried focals without waveguide and slight toe in in my own setup, compared to KEF X300A and the current 8030C the imaging was actually best for X300A->8030C->Focal Alpha 50.Waveguides can offer a particular type of imaging, but I've never considered imaging as strength, they always make sacrifices there to my ears. Non-waveguided tweeters generally offer wider dispersion and one that narrows towards the top and the result is a more defined image that expands out beyond the speaker. For example the center image on my amiga's is very strong, you can't ignore it, while the 8030c effectively has no center for the most part.