Studio monitors that are loud and have a lot of bass for under 3500 Euro?

[Chevron]

Some background, I am a mix and mastering engineer with a nice 25 m2 studio, home to a Trinnov ST2 Pro and Genelec 8351B setup. Great, love it.

I am looking for a secondary set of monitors that MUST BE LOUD, client pleasers, have deep bass, lots of sub 35 Hz and are under 3500 Euros.

The 8351Bs do not have the SPL for this requirement.

Happy to forgo some accuracy in exchange for volume and extended low end. I have an EveTS112 sub so maybe can combine.

Considered Neumann KH150 and 310, Hedd Type 20, Adam A8H and all seem low on power.

My first post, and cheers!

 

[DVDdoug]

Maybe a pair of "large" PA or "dance club" speakers? Maybe with a matching sub? And of course you can EQ if necessary.

These kind of speakers (including subwoofers) usually don't have super-deep bass. They are usually "tuned" to go down to around 40Hz. By doing that, they can get more efficiency for loud-strong bass you can feel in your body.


P.S.
IMO - "Loud sound" like this sounds better in a large space with natural reverberation... Pretty-much the opposite of most studios.* Loud music in a small space makes me feel claustrophobic, or something... Even not-so-loud music sounds better to me in a "music hall".



* You usually don't want reverb in a studio (at least on the mixing/monitoring "side of the glass") because you just want to to accurately hear the pure-direct recording.

 

[Ellebob]

If you need louder than 8351 and within your budget, I agree PA speakers are the way to go. JBL, QSC, Electro-voice, Yamaha and Mackie are good brands to consider. The PA speakers are probably capable of going louder than your sub depending on model. Depending how loud you need you might consider a PA sub or another sub.

 

[MEGB1262]

Hi there,
quite interesting task, should this secondary speakers be used in the same room as the others mentioned before? The DRC can be used for both pair or speakers or is it hard wired to the Genelec's?

 

[pierre]

For 3.5k I would go with PA speakers equalized.
Something like
- https://www.thomannmusic.ch/intl/ld_systems_stinger_12_sub18_power_bundle.htm
- https://www.thomannmusic.ch/intl/das_audio_altea_412_718a_power_bundle.htm

What SPL do you want ? that would help to narrow the search.

 

[LTig]

The cheapest monitor at Thomann is the KRK Rokit RP10-3 G4 but its specs say that it's not louder than the KH310. The Dynaudio BM15 should be louder, and there may be budget left for a cheap sub.

But a set of 2 good and loud PA speakers (8" or 10" woofer) and one (18") sub certainly can play much louder. I own a pair of rather cheap FBT Jolly 8a (8" woofer) and an old 2nd hand RCF PS500 sub (12") for which I payed about €1200 in 2005,to be7sed for my E-drum. While it doesn't sound like hifi when playing soft they really shine at louder SPLs.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Get a sub or two or even 4. As for the monitors, the usual suspects eg. Neumann, Genelec have excellent monitors with nice software possibilities to integrate those subs

 

[test1223]

Considered Neumann KH150 and 310, Hedd Type 20, Adam A8H and all seem low on power.

As others already indirectly said all monitors you mentioned are way underpowered if the Genelecs aren't loud enough.

Loud and deep bass with high fidelity is very expensive and big. PA as Top and two cinema/ home subwoofer with 18" or 21" driver should bring enough power and is the best price performance option. It should be possible to put something together within your budget.

In the low end a typical PA subwoofer can't deliver enough power at the very low frequencies of about 35Hz they simply don't do much there. A typical powerful big home/ cinema subwoofer is the way to go.

If the listening distance is short (about 1m) I would use a better coaxial PA speaker. You have to be aware that a lot of PA speaker cabinets are lighter builds and you often can hear some resonances of the enclosure at higher listening levels and with most amps you have a higher hiss when everything is switched on.

More expensive Home / Cinema speakers often have much better cabinets and the same good PA drivers. A DIY build of a cabinet or modification of a PA cabinet is another cheaper solution.

 

[Sancus]

I feel like you need to specify how loud you want lol. The obvious solution to me is to add subs to the 8351Bs, because with subs a pair can play loud enough within 2-3m to potentially cause hearing damage. Mine aren't near walls and a single one will still comfortably hit 105dB in the mid-bass at 2.5m. I've measured.

If you want more like 110dB per speaker or(god forbid) 115dB WITHOUT subs at those distances, you're going to need something like the JBL M2 or another compression driver based floorstander with multiple LARGE woofers like the JTR Noesis dual 15" line.

 

[Sokel]

It also matters how many clients you want to please.
Put 5-6 people talking to each other in a room like this and the need for SPL skyrockets.

Get the biggest,ugliest,big/multiple woofered ones if you don't care about pinpoint accuracy.

 

[test1223]

I feel like you need to specify how loud you want lol. The obvious solution to me is to add subs to the 8351Bs, because with subs a pair can play loud enough within 2-3m to potentially cause hearing damage. Mine aren't near walls and a single one will still comfortably hit 105dB in the mid-bass at 2.5m. I've measured.

You have to be aware of the studio environment. With lightly or no compression you very often get 110dB peaks without a higher mean spl. You can't compare this with the typical music listener experience...

Edit: you also have a lot of people with hearing damage so they also often want or need a lot of spl.

 

[Chevron]

Thanks folks, hadn't considered but not really keen on PA speakers as may be physically too big. However, will give it some thought and look at some of the suggestions.

Thinking possibly of getting a single Neumann KH450, and adding a 2nd later.

That said and despite not being so keen, need to face reality and the shortlist is Neumann KH150, Hedd Type 20 Mk2 and Adam A77H & A8H. Maybe even Genelec 8350s...

 

[Rja4000]

A pair of Nexo PS10 R2 with one LS600 sub, all second hand ? Don't forget the amp and processor.
Not sure of the price, though.
You may still rent them, if that's only on occasion.

 

[test1223]

Thanks folks, hadn't considered but not really keen on PA speakers as may be physically too big. However, will give it some thought and look at some of the suggestions.

Thinking possibly of getting a single Neumann KH450, and adding a 2nd later.

That said and despite not being so keen, need to face reality and the shortlist is Neumann KH150, Hedd Type 20 Mk2 and Adam A77H & A8H. Maybe even Genelec 8350s...

You can't get loud and deep bass at the same time in a small box!

All the monitors you considered won't make a big difference in max spl and or deep bass spl compared with the Genelec you already own.

Even the biggest monitor you are considering the KH420 can't deliver deep bass with high spl. You need at least one big subwoofer which is relatively cheap or a very big speaker which is typically not cheap at all.

Getting higher spl from about 100Hz to 20kHz can be done with relatively small speakers and isn't that expensive even if you want studio grade speakers.

So you first have to find out if the spl of your Genelec isn't enough when a subwoofer is added.

 

[Chevron]

You can't get loud and deep bass at the same time in a small box!

Mentioned already.

All the monitors you considered won't make a big difference in max spl and or deep bass spl compared with the Genelec you already own.

Mentioned already.

Even the biggest monitor you are considering the KH420 can't deliver deep bass with high spl. You need at least one big subwoofer which is relatively cheap or a very big speaker which is typically not cheap at all.

The KH420 can not deliver deep bass and high SPL? The specs suggest otherwise.

Getting higher spl from about 100Hz to 20kHz can be done with relatively small speakers and isn't that expensive even if you want studio grade speakers.

So you first have to find out if the spl of your Genelec isn't enough when a subwoofer is added.

It is fine if the answer is that such a speaker does not exist, I was half expecting that anyway and just looking to be comprehensive before buying a second monitoring set. I have various other speakers, just looking for a solid pair that would compliment the 8351Bs

With a Sub in use with the 8351Bs and aligned with the Trinnov, subjectively there is just about enough SPL for the aforementioned use...

 

[Chevron]

Hi there,
quite interesting task, should this secondary speakers be used in the same room as the others mentioned before? The DRC can be used for both pair or speakers or is it hard wired to the Genelec's?

Hi, and thanks. Yes this secondary set will be in the same room and used with the Trinnov, as well as the 8351Bs.


I do have other studio speakers, just wondering if such a speaker existed. I figured not but always worth asking, and the idea of a PA speaker could be interesting. Something which I had not considered.

 

[Chevron]

You have to be aware of the studio environment. With lightly or no compression you very often get 110dB peaks without a higher mean spl. You can't compare this with the typical music listener experience...

Edit: you also have a lot of people with hearing damage so they also often want or need a lot of spl.

As mentioned, I am a mix engineer (25+ years) so well aware of the need to listen at modest levels. Hence, secondary monitors for occasional use as client pleasers and short low-end heavy bursts. Like we use in mixing rooms with large soffit-mounted main monitors.

My favourite being the Red Room in London with huge Ausperger monitors. Great for checking the extreme low-end and leaving clients to blast when I'm out of the room

Of course, I'm not suggesting to replicate those beasts....

 

[DSJR]

Forgive me for asking, but does the OP know any studio colleagues who may be refurbing their studios and selling off their hopefully still working well large monitors cheaply? Just a thought if used can be an option. No idea where the better examples of such are sold, but here in the UK, there have been auctions of ex-studio gear.

 

[Chevron]

Forgive me for asking, but does the OP know any studio colleagues who may be refurbing their studios and selling off their hopefully still working well large monitors cheaply? Just a thought if used can be an option. No idea where the better examples of such are sold, but here in the UK, there have been auctions of ex-studio gear.

Thanks for the suggestion, I have been keeping an eye over at Funky Junk, Reverb etc but nothing suitable as yet.

Years ago, I tried out some Event Opals and from memory, they were extremely loud and with deep bass. However, I have known a number of people who have had a lot of issues with their Opals over the years, so not keen to source a pair.

 

[dasdoing]

for $4000 you get the S360. I don't think it makes sense to go for less only for "a few bucks"