Best speakers in the world?

[Pearljam5000]

ATCs are not popular here lol

 

[krabapple]

I believe its both. Of course the type of speaker (di-polar, bi-polar, horn, omnidirectional, conventional etc) heavily influences how the speaker interacts with the room, so the issue gets a bit into circular logic. And as I mentioned, placement plays a large part in imaging - especially depth imaging.

Does Amir measure 'imaging' in his test setup? If not, why do you think that is, hmm? (And yes, this has been discussed to death elsewhere , so you may consider it a rhetorical question)

 

[richard12511]

interesting ... see here maintained monitor speakers like genelec or focal, but no atc ... i think active SCM 100-150 and above are definitely among the best sepekers

I'd love to see more ATC speakers measured here, as it's probably unfair to judge their entire line based on the measurements of just one speaker. The one that was measured here did ok, but didn't show the same level of performance that we see from Genelec(or even Focal). I believe that review is probably the main reason why ATC seems to get little love on this site.

 

[q3cpma]

I'd love to see more ATC speakers measured here, as it's probably unfair to judge their entire line based on the measurements of just one speaker. The one that was measured here did ok, but didn't show the same level of performance that we see from Genelec(or even Focal). I believe that review is probably the main reason why ATC seems to get little love on this site.

Well, even if it were good, it's another manufacturer of professional tools not being honest enough to give us measurements. I don't know how anybody here can support this kind of behaviour when Genelec or Neumann exist.

 

[richard12511]

Does Amir measure 'imaging' in his test setup? If not, why do you think that is, hmm? (And yes, this has been discussed to death elsewhere , so you may consider it a rhetorical question)

@MakeMineVinyl is correct, though. Imaging is a function of room/position, the recording, speaker directivity, and QC.

If you've ever compared a 60° horizontal beam-width speaker in the same room with a 140° beam-width speaker, it's very obvious that no amount of re-positioning or EQ is ever going to get the wider beam-width speaker to image as tightly as the narrow beam-width speaker.

 

[ReciprocalSpace]

That is awesome. I am impressed with Choras performance compared to Aria, but I got Arias because they come in a bigger model (948) and I got a great deal (40% off MSRP), which would be hard to find in something as new as Chora. Aria 906 measured only slightly better than Chora 806 and the Choras look a little better to me. I think the Kantas have the most advanced design, and I also think a HT is hard to beat with stereo. While I am not surprised Kanta HT setup was better to you than the Grand Utopia, I am a little surprused the Grand Utopias were not incredible in that room. If I were old enough for a midlife crisis I would probably have gotten Kanta No 3s. They look like the best out of everything tjey have, at least for a 50m sq. High ceiling Room like mine.

Revels may have won a double blind test, but they are not even made in America or Europe. I would not pay that kind of money for something from a low cost location.

Where'd you get the 948's at 40% off? I've seen at $3500 (30% off) but never more than that outside of Europe.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I'd love to see more ATC speakers measured here, as it's probably unfair to judge their entire line based on the measurements of just one speaker. The one that was measured here did ok, but didn't show the same level of performance that we see from Genelec(or even Focal). I believe that review is probably the main reason why ATC seems to get little love on this site.

TBH, measurements of ATC speakers published elsewhere don't indicate that the one measured here was unusual.

 

[Helicopter]

Where'd you get the 948's at 40% off? I've seen at $3500 (30% off) but never more than that outside of Europe.

MSRP is $6k a pair in US, so 40% off is $3600. They are insanely cheap in Europe, especially the UK, where MSRP is only 2900 pounds which is like $3750, which includes VAT. They must have set the price when the pound was stronger. Maybe the exchange rates are part of why there are such steep discounts in the US along with the stage in the product life cycle. I ordered them from World Wide Stereo.

 

[Davelemi]

It's a good comparison but not accurate
Mechanical watches are known to be inferior To quartz watches, you know they when you're buying a Rolex you know that it'll be less accurate than a $10 Casio.
But when you buy $250K speakers you expect them to be the most accurate, best sounding, with the the most amazing bass etc vs cheaper speakers.

You spend that premium for craftsmanship and exclusivity not accuracy. People probably pair those with tube amps- so much for accuracy.

 

[outfaced]

Well, even if it were good, it's another manufacturer of professional tools not being honest enough to give us measurements. I don't know how anybody here can support this kind of behaviour when Genelec or Neumann exist.

ATC is definitely one of those companies, that are more into music and less into physic and measurements. Never saw ATC development center in their factory videos. Still one big producer of studio speakers tought. Dont think the one measured here (SCM 19 v1) is really a representative for their range. Actually ATC gets interesting with their midrange driver or above SCM 50 (even SCM40 is more of a home-consumer-compromise-product) and they definitely have to be paired with the right amp. I listen to SCM 19 v2 on Hegel H160 and on ATC P1 amp - same power rating (150W) but the hegel struggle to get any good bass with them even on paper had a better damping factor.

 

[andreasmaaan]

ATC is definitely one of those companies, that are more into music and less into physic and measurements. Never saw ATC development center in their factory videos. Still one big producer of studio speakers tought. Dont think the one measured here (SCM 19 v1) is really a representative for their range. Actually ATC gets interesting with their midrange driver or above SCM 50 (even SCM40 is more of a home-consumer-compromise-product) and they definitely have to be paired with the right amp. I listen to SCM 19 v2 on Hegel H160 and on ATC P1 amp - same power rating (150W) but the hegel struggle to get any good bass with them even on paper had a better damping factor.

They make some good drivers, including that midrange dome they are famous for, but I'm yet to see evidence that they've successfully managed to design a decent speaker out of them.

Take their SCM25, which uses the premium version of their renowned dome midrange, and which retails for $8k a pair (these measurements come from Sound & Recording magazine):

Some of the best speakers on the market at any price-point cost the same as these, and yet here we have extremely mediocre performance. This would be disappointing in an $1k/pair monitor, let alone an $8k/pair one.

And trying to monitor using these speakers? A terrible idea, IMHO.

 

[Helicopter]

You spend that premium for craftsmanship and exclusivity not accuracy. People probably pair those with tube amps- so much for accuracy.

Tubes are just like mechanical watches in that you are making a choice to use old technology for fun, even though there is cheaper solid state technology with better objective performance. The only difference is some people think tubes actually sound better. I don't think they are better, but I think mine sound just fine. Mine probably color the sound far less than the best passive speakers, though I I don't really know as I have never seen measurements.

Someday I will get around to making a test load and see how they actually perform.

 

[MarsianC#]

Take their SCM25, which uses the premium version of their renowned dome midrange, and which retails for $8k a pair (these measurements come from Sound & Recording magazine):

Source?

 

[andreasmaaan]

Source?

Sound and Recording magazine.

Also, I should have clarified: this was the SCM25. The current model is SCM25A, so it's possible improvements have been made.

 

[MarsianC#]

Oh my, I should look up my stuff...

 

[outfaced]

They make some good drivers, including that midrange dome they are famous for, but I'm yet to see evidence that they've successfully managed to design a decent speaker out of them.
...

mhm .... will be interesting really to see something like that for 50/100/150
here for 40
http://www.avmentor.net/reviews/2014/atc_scm40_2.shtml
not that bad i think

they measured also the new 19
http://www.avmentor.net/reviews/2016/atc_scm19_2.shtml

 

[andreasmaaan]

mhm .... will be interesting really to see something like that for 50/100/150
here for 40
http://www.avmentor.net/reviews/2014/atc_scm40_2.shtml
not that bad i think

they measured also the new 19
http://www.avmentor.net/reviews/2016/atc_scm19_2.shtml

Thanks for the links. Those measurements also look pretty poor to me, but that's just my opinion The data speak for themselves.

 

[Purité Audio]

Active and passive versions of the 50,


Keith

 

[tuga]

What would you say are the best speakers on the planet?

Kef's Muon looks good on paper.

Never had a chance to listen to a pair though...

 

[richard12511]

Kef's Muon looks good on paper.

Never had a chance to listen to a pair though...

Measurements?