What is generally the best material for speaker cones with the least compromise and most benefits?

[fpitas]

In this apples to oranges comparison, we see the big 15" paper cone JBL is actually the lowest distortion, with a very useable response to above 1kHz, with minimal peaks and valleys and distortion under control.

There's no replacement for displacement. My solution to wanting more dynamics from my W18s was to use 4 of them per speaker, for the cone area of a 13" driver.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Id go with the Magico drivers
Beryllium-diamond tweeter
And Graphene/carbon/aluminum woofers

 

[fpitas]

View attachment 333408View attachment 333409Id go with the Magico drivers
Beryllium-diamond tweeter
And Graphene/caebon/aluminum woofers

Will you still have room for Magicos after you get 8381As?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Will you still have room for Magicos after you get 8381As?

I'll wait for the 8381B with beryllium tweeters

 

[Tom C]

There's an insidious 'luxury mindset' in audio, which assumes that the more expensive and difficult a thing is, the better it is. This simply isn't the case.

So, plasma, plasma must be the best.

 

[ryanosaur]

Yes.

I don't know about the technical behaviour of that tweeter, but man is it sweet and pure sounding.

I had an audio buddy and reviewer over at my place recently. He listened to a lot of tracks on my system including ones he knows really well. When I asked him to describe the sound afterward he said, aside from the crazy imaging, the thing that stuck out was the smoothness of the sound. In particular he said the highs didn't sound remotely rolled off, but really extended, airy, cymbals and everything else had wonderful shimmer, but it was "buttery smooth" and super relaxing at the same time, like he could just keep turning up the sound with no sense of fatigue. Which is exactly what I hear, and one of the main reasons I bought the speakers (which is very helpful because I suffer from tinnitus and hyperacusis, and so a speaker has to be really smooth in order for me to listen to it loud).

Quite possibly one of the, if not the, best soft dome tweets I've come across.

 

[Pearljam5000]

The Zellaton drivers look pretty cool

 

[fpitas]

The Zellaton drivers look pretty cool View attachment 333427

Eye of the beholder, and all that. It does look different.

 

[MAB]

Thanks that is a very interesting analysis...and a prime example of why this forum can be so great!

I see you measured some SEAS drivers different from the ones used in my particular Joseph Perspectives Graphene 2 speakers. Outside what JA provided in the stereophile review, I've never been able to confidently find measurements of the drivers used in my speakers. The spec mentioned for my speaker's drivers is "two 5.5" (140mm) magnesium-cone woofers." Early on I found that someone had measured the "new" SEAS graphene drivers, though the size is referenced as "SEAS Excel Graphene...5.25" Driver. So I'm not sure if it's the same driver. Anyway, the measurements are similar to what you got:

Test Bench: SEAS Excel Graphene W16NX003 5.25” Midbass Driver

In this Test Bench, Vance Dickason characterizes the SEAS W16NX003 5.25” midbass driver, one of the new graphene-coated magnesium cone drivers from the brand's Excel Graphene range. This product line has been an ongoing project for more than two years, combining the already highly prized...

audioxpress.com

The writer seemed fairly impressed all things considered.

They are all of the same family.
No doubt Joseph uses modified versions of the Seas shelf-items. This is extremely common, all of these well-known manufacturers use drivers modified to suit their purposes. In some cases new surround or special tweeter like these very nice Jamo speakers that also use Seas Excel, the tweeter uses silver wire voice coil:

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Stereo-Review-IDX/IDX/90s/Stereo-Review-1997-02-OCR-Page-0042.pdf

Or even cheapen the driver by ditching the cast frame and using a stamped steel, or lesser magnet.
In your case, it does look like a non-standard surround with the foldy-ridges, which should help with some of the surround's non-linearities. Here are the Seas 18cm Excel models of Graphene, non-Graphene, and Nextel drivers:

The measurements above that I posted are of the middle one, the non-graphene version... All are part of Seas' ultra-stiff low mass approach. Perhaps the Nextel has a more damped peak, where the Graphene has less damped, but all of those drivers will make a similar screeching sound unless dealt with! The peak moves in frequency with the driver size:

The cone material can affect this resonant frequency, but to first order these light and stiff cones' resonant peak is determined by the size. For instance, the 18cm vs. 16cm versions of the same Graphene driver moves the resonance from ~5kHz to 6.5kHz.

As to break up modes, I never care much about that since I only care about how things sound in the end product. If the break up is dealt with well enough, it's no issue.
Joseph Audio was originally known for using Richard Modafferi's "infinite slope crossover," which I'm guessing you'd know more about than I do, but is a purportedly super steep crossover (purportedly dropping 120dB per octave for the first 42dB). Which if correct would seem to help realize the potential of many metal drivers. I understand the slope is somewhat controversial, and also Jeff Joseph has modified the crossover through time (I think he's crossing over the tweeter lower these days too). Further, I don't think the stereophile measurements showed anything particularly heroic was going on with the crossover?

It is very possible. I am not aware, and can't speculate! That may be a path that was taken. I like to use a series notch filter using an inductor, capacitor, and resistor as mentioned above.

In any case, it seems to me Joseph knows what he is doing in terms of the final result, because despite the nasty break up stuff in these drivers, the end result is super smooth sound. That is the specific feature of these speakers that is remarked upon over and over by listeners at audio shows, reviews, and by owners. The smoothness and apparent lack of distortion is the very first impression they made on me, and continue to make on me.

The drivers are certainly extremely low distortion, the resonance is manageable. It's no wonder good speakers are made from them. Obviously Joseph is aware of the tradeoff here, and dealt it and was able to take advantage of the low distortion.

Cheers.

 

[Salt]

The Zellaton drivers look pretty cool View attachment 333427

Hach, Görlich, Manger .... reminiscences.

 

[Alfredo02]

I think it is interesting the approach SB Acoustics is following in their mid range cone drivers product line. Aside from the Satori line, It looks their strategy is to use the same motor and overall structure, just changing the cone material on their product families: NRX: paper fibers; CRC:Carbon; MFC: Poly materials; PFC: Paper.

But they may have arrived to the same conclusion than many, that Aluminium excels as soon as cost is included into the equation. So mach that several of their product lines are nothing more than their same aluminium cones, just with final coating and treatments:
- SB NAC family: Original aluminium line and the basis for other product families. Soon to be discontinued for an updated version.
- SB PAC family: Anodised aluminium, improving partly performance and mainly aesthetics
- SB CAC family: Ceramic cone. It is the same aluminium cone, but treated, depositing a ceramic layer. It increases partly performance but mainly aesthetics. Most important, allows them to play in the Ceramics market niche, where only Acuton exists at much higher prices
- SB NBAC family: Aluminium cone, black coated. Similar performance, better aesthetics.

A product strategy relying on two key materials: Paper, using Papyrus as a differentiator and the basis for their Satori product line, and Aluminium as the basis for several of their product families.

Clever strategy from SB Acoustics, a most respected company.

 

[ryanosaur]

Seas, iirc, does this too, utilizing a motor with different cones.

 

[DavidShe]

 

[Flaesh]

I believe plain tweeters like

made from PET waste like

or similar plastic

 

[Flaesh]

 

[Hornlyd]

I'll comment that I don't like titanium for horn diaphragms. JBL worked out a way to damp most of the nastiness with aquaplas, but I've never heard those.

Aquaplas sound damped when i compared side by side with beryllium in a M2 horn.

 

[CleanSound]

I have muster enough courage to make this comment publicly and I know there will be a whirlwind of rebuttals, anger and attacks. But I have decided to brace myself to make such comment.

I agree that there is no such thing as perfect transducer as it is an engineering trade off. Paper cones and soft dome cones have certain properties that are superb and some of the best sounding speakers uses such material. Case in point, the MoFi speakers designed by Andrew Jones. They are superb speakers. . .however. . .

If I am paying $3k for speakers, I would feel ripped off that it uses paper and cloth as it will give me a cheap feeling. I would like to see a baby unicorn sacrificed for its horn as parts and material for my speaker.

OK, I am ready for my punishment for insulting paper cones and soft domes, but first go get a ticket and get on line to insult me.

 

[Hornlyd]

And which materials sounds better than paper and silk?

 

[MAB]

And which materials sounds better than paper and silk?

Recycled Stradivarius violins.

 

[MAB]

I have mustard enough courage to make this comment publicly and I know there will be a whirlwinds of rebuttals, anger and attacks. But I have decide to brace myself to make such comment.

I agree that there is no such thing as perfect transducer as it is an engineering trade off. Paper cones and soft dome cones have certain properties that are superb and some of the best sounding speakers uses such material. Case in point, the MoFi speakers designed by Andrew Jones. They are super speakers. . .however. . .

If I am paying $3k for speakers, I would feel ripped off that it uses paper and cloth as it will give me a cheap feeling. I would like to see a baby unicorn sacrificed for it's horn as parts and material for my speaker.

OK, I am ready for my punishment for insulting paper cones and soft domes, but first get a ticket and get on line to insult me.

But paper isn’t cheap. Perhaps you feel it’s cheap, but it isn’t.
And those expensive materials often have resonances that are difficult or even impossible to control, which limits their usefulness or require costly mitigations.