Best measuring speaker?

[Jon AA]

If talking about speakers that hold their directivity to lower frequencies (thus, less affected by SBIR reflections) such as cardioid speakers, etc, it most certainly can be seen in the spin (steeply rising sound power DI at a much lower frequency than normal speakers--for an example see Erin's spin of the Dutch & Dutch 8c). If that's what's important to a guy all he needs to do is look for it.

 

[sarumbear]

Dear all,

what's according to available data sources the best measuring speaker (i.e. flat on axis, going deep in bass, no kinks in impedance, homogenous lateral response, no resonances)?

There is no best measuring speaker. Speaker design is a compromise. What the designer optimised maybe good or bad for you.

On the other hand if certain parameters are bad then the speaker is bad. There are lots of bad measuring speakers.

You have two options to chose the best speaker for you.

1- Demo in your own room
2- Learn to understand all measurements and decide if the compromise the designer made is acceptable by you.

 

[Bjorn]

Do you have the spins of both speakers, I would have thought there would be clues in the spin, even if not reflected in the score.

The "red" speaker, that measured worse in the actual room with 5 different position, has a better anechoic vertical directivity than the other and actually doesn't have any polar lobing at all. Therefore it would score higher. On-axis and horizontally they are more or less identical.

 

[Bjorn]

There's only one speaker design that can truly avoid speaker boundary interference effect and that's a large horn speaker with narrow dispersion. Typical cardiode directivity with 120°-140° doesn't achieve this, though they will minimize it a little.

So if you have a well designed horn with constant directivity from 250 Hz, and EQ it flat anechoic it will also be flat when you place it in the room!
Drawbacks? Yes, size! Size is everything when it comes to horns.

 

[Purité Audio]

Bjorn what do you think of the Danleys I had their HRE here, in room measurements were very tidy but the extremely narrow directivity was almost a one person listen.
Keith

 

[Soniclife]

The "red" speaker, that measured worse in the actual room with 5 different position, has a better anechoic vertical directivity than the other and actually doesn't have any polar lobing at all. Therefore it would score higher. On-axis and horizontally they are more or less identical.

So what makes the other one better in room? It would be helpful to post the measurements for us to see.

 

[Bjorn]

Bjorn what do you think of the Danleys I had their HRE here, in room measurements were very tidy but the extremely narrow directivity was almost a one person listen.
Keith

I assume that the same as the Hyperion that's been introduced? Which I guess is the SH50 horn placed in a box with dual opposing 15" drivers below. The synergy solution avoids vertical lobing. Whether it creates audible issues in regards to diffraction from the holes or not is uncertain. Acoustically speaking, such a horn is quite small with its fairly narrow dispersion. Which is seen in the polar of the SH50 that gradually get's wider already below 1000-900 Hz. So it's not broadband constant directivity.

If the experience was that it was almost only good sound for one position, that might indicate a problem with the directivity or perhaps the side woofers with its crossover is also contributing. With something like 80-100° broadband constant directivity and speakers are placed wide enough, you can basically walk in all of the width of the room and the sound/tonality should be great almost anywhere. That's one the beauties of broadband constant directivity, whether it's wide or narrow. And with a narrow dispersion, the frequency response above the Schroeder doesn't change much either.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Distortion and compression measurements(when done, Erin does them mainly, not many others).

But the reality is it's mostly just cabinet size and woofer area. There's not a huge difference in output among similarly sized speakers. You might get like 3-6dB more from a speaker that costs thousands vs one that costs hundreds, but that's about it.

This is a big oversimplification. There can be pretty big differences in driver capability (both max SPL and linearity, motor strength, driver mass etc etc) that can hugely affect perceived dynamic capacity, even though the surface area is the same.

 

[Sokel]

This is a big oversimplification. There can be pretty big differences in driver capability (both max SPL and linearity, motor strength, driver mass etc etc) that can hugely affect perceived dynamic capacity, even though the surface area is the same.

6db is a very big difference amongst similar size,that along with the distortion at lows reflects the quality.

 

[sarumbear]

This is a big oversimplification. There can be pretty big differences in driver capability (both max SPL and linearity, motor strength, driver mass etc etc) that can hugely affect perceived dynamic capacity, even though the surface area is the same.

What is a perceived dynamic capacity?

 

[sarumbear]

Bjorn what do you think of the Danleys I had their HRE here, in room measurements were very tidy but the extremely narrow directivity was almost a one person listen.
Keith

Is that HRE a prototype? I cannot see HRE on their website.

 

[sigbergaudio]

What is a perceived dynamic capacity?

Not going down that route, please scratch "perceived".

 

[sarumbear]

Not going down that route, please scratch "perceived".

I wasn't leading to any route but I am still not sure what you mean by dynamic capacity. If it is the dynamic range then it is the maximum SPL capacity within the defined spectrum, isn't it? If yes, does differing driver parameters matter?

 

[Bjorn]

Something we need to ask ourselves is the following: How applicable are anechoic measurements?
IMO, measurements above a reflective floor should also be shown since this is the way we use the speakers with the exeption of when speakers are placed on a table.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I wasn't leading to any route but I am still not sure what you mean by dynamic capacity. If it is the dynamic range then it is the maximum SPL capacity within the defined spectrum, isn't it? If yes, does differing driver parameters matter?

Of course driver parameters affect maximum SPL. Most directly sensitivity vs power handling - which I guess is the result of the driver parameters.

Linearity / distortion will be affected by how the driver is built. A heavy, low sensitivity driver will typically be more resonant and higher distortion, and also build up heat. And then you have the entire range of thiele-small parameters and details on how the driver is built up that affects IMD etc. I'm no loudspeaker driver expert, so I won't venture into explaining those details.

Put simply: In my experience a high sensitivity / low mass driver sounds more dynamic and effortless at high playback levels, which is what I was referring to with "Perceived dynamics" as opposed to absolute dynamic range. But even the latter can be higher within a given distortion limit (so higher SPL at lower distortion levels).

 

[abdo123]

I would be very interested in seeing an objective review for them. But, yes, one of the highest scoring passive bookshelf speakers along with the March Audio Sointuvas, and, with long port, the Kef Reference 1s. Obviously, the most economical as well.

you already have the NFS spin how objectiver can you get?

 

[abdo123]

The "red" speaker, that measured worse in the actual room with 5 different position, has a better anechoic vertical directivity than the other and actually doesn't have any polar lobing at all. Therefore it would score higher. On-axis and horizontally they are more or less identical.

why not just name the speakers?

 

[Sancus]

This is a big oversimplification. There can be pretty big differences in driver capability (both max SPL and linearity, motor strength, driver mass etc etc) that can hugely affect perceived dynamic capacity, even though the surface area is the same.

It's an oversimplification that is just plain true most of the time based on all the measurements I've seen. You have to do pretty silly comparisons to get outside of it.

 

[sigbergaudio]

It's an oversimplification that is just plain true most of the time based on all the measurements I've seen. You have to do pretty silly comparisons to get outside of it.

I guess I'm reacting to the wording more than the content. 6dB difference isn't "just" or "only".

 

[Ron Texas]

There is no best measuring speaker. Speaker design is a compromise. What the designer optimised maybe good or bad for you.

On the other hand if certain parameters are bad then the speaker is bad. There are lots of bad measuring speakers.

You have two options to chose the best speaker for you.

1- Demo in your own room
2- Learn to understand all measurements and decide if the compromise the designer made is acceptable by you.

There is a speaker with the highest preference score and it is fair to say within the context of ASR that is the best measuring speaker. Whether it is the best speaker for an individual is a different story. As I mentioned before, preference scores don't take dynamic range into account. They weight each band of frequency response evenly. Finally, if the only thing holding a speaker's preference score down are a couple of peaks in frequency response that is easy to fix with EQ.