rana_kirti
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what will be some examples of some direct competitor products to the nx300d in just amplifier and amplifier including DSP options...?
thanks.
thanks.
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Behringer NX3000D Pro DSP Amplifier Review
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Crown is their biggest competitor: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ew&c[title_only]=1&c[users]=amirm&o=relevance
rana_kirti
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thanks, could you be kind enough to telle which amongst them is a closest 1to1 equal competitor to the nx300d ?
Just to alert those looking for a subwoofer amplifier for the home, my experience is as follows:
A board amplifier like the one I used before opting for the Bheringer NX3000D, the Dayton SPA250, has a "classic" line source.
It allows you to adjust the volume, select the low frequency crossover with the satellite speakers and the phase, although only a 180 degree inversion.
The declared power is 250 Watts/8 Ohms in total, since it is a monophonic amplifier, that is, more than 125 Watts per channel if used with two 8 Ohms satellites in parallel.
This is a unit (like almost all motherboards) that is difficult to access for repair and, unfortunately, the failure rate is high judging by the numerous reports on the web in different forums.
The Bheringer, leaving aside discussions about declared power vs. The measurement here, in this forum, offers two stereo channels and each of them with more power than the total of the Dayton SPA250, also with the possibility of increasing it considerably if the bridge is used. /mono mode. The DSP allows adjustment through software - NX Edit - in a very easy and precise way.
It also has a parametric equalizer. It has SMPS source. The fan does not regulate the speed according to consumption, but rather starts at full speed and remains there until you turn it off or due to excess current it decides to cut off the supply. But the Leds will warn you before. I have never reached that situation in my living room, which is a considerable size. But it is imperative to replace it with Noctua or similar if you use it in a small or medium-sized room, and even if you are located very far away when you listen, when you get closer it feels very noisy, I can't. bear it.
Now, based on my experience, I'm talking to you about sound.
The bass notes are omnidirectional, but some claim that you can hear which direction the thunder is coming from, so it's a nebulous point to argue. For me, stereo in subwoofer systems is beneficial to override room modes, have at least two speakers, and you feel the depth of a timball there at the back of the orchestra, but you can't locate the row of double basses located next to it. the right. .....
The big downside is the Bheringer NX3000D's default 20Hz limit. If you intend to listen to the "full" spectrum, yes, there is low frequency information there. At least up to 16 Hz there are people who perceive it.
But I have my serious doubts if such a small difference attributable (apparently and by me) to the Bheringer software (something logical since it is an amplifier designed for public address) is real and is the problem really attributable to the power supply?
Personally I have heard amplifiers that, even having linear sources, and being designs for the home and for audiophiles obsessed with minimum specifications, used regulated sources, but removed the "speed" and rhythm of the bass. There is an instantaneous current demand time and with a few milliseconds delay in the power supply when it needs to respond to fast low frequency transients, that is audible...
An amplifier for public address use, "vintage", with linear sources and without sophisticated regulations (complicated circuits), at most with current limiters, but generous in power and somewhat oversized "on purpose", with large transformers and filtering capacitors, They gave unmatched authority to the bass. I have never been able to find them in these amplifiers with " conmutadas " sources that, in my opinion, have only become fashionable due to a question of weight and costs. But everything "is paid for."
As always, you can't have the "best of both worlds", linear and generous PWS, and DSP and parametric EQ all in one.
But it could be a good idea for a DIY enthusiast, don't you think?
A board amplifier like the one I used before opting for the Bheringer NX3000D, the Dayton SPA250, has a "classic" line source.
It allows you to adjust the volume, select the low frequency crossover with the satellite speakers and the phase, although only a 180 degree inversion.
The declared power is 250 Watts/8 Ohms in total, since it is a monophonic amplifier, that is, more than 125 Watts per channel if used with two 8 Ohms satellites in parallel.
This is a unit (like almost all motherboards) that is difficult to access for repair and, unfortunately, the failure rate is high judging by the numerous reports on the web in different forums.
The Bheringer, leaving aside discussions about declared power vs. The measurement here, in this forum, offers two stereo channels and each of them with more power than the total of the Dayton SPA250, also with the possibility of increasing it considerably if the bridge is used. /mono mode. The DSP allows adjustment through software - NX Edit - in a very easy and precise way.
It also has a parametric equalizer. It has SMPS source. The fan does not regulate the speed according to consumption, but rather starts at full speed and remains there until you turn it off or due to excess current it decides to cut off the supply. But the Leds will warn you before. I have never reached that situation in my living room, which is a considerable size. But it is imperative to replace it with Noctua or similar if you use it in a small or medium-sized room, and even if you are located very far away when you listen, when you get closer it feels very noisy, I can't. bear it.
Now, based on my experience, I'm talking to you about sound.
The bass notes are omnidirectional, but some claim that you can hear which direction the thunder is coming from, so it's a nebulous point to argue. For me, stereo in subwoofer systems is beneficial to override room modes, have at least two speakers, and you feel the depth of a timball there at the back of the orchestra, but you can't locate the row of double basses located next to it. the right. .....
The big downside is the Bheringer NX3000D's default 20Hz limit. If you intend to listen to the "full" spectrum, yes, there is low frequency information there. At least up to 16 Hz there are people who perceive it.
But I have my serious doubts if such a small difference attributable (apparently and by me) to the Bheringer software (something logical since it is an amplifier designed for public address) is real and is the problem really attributable to the power supply?
Personally I have heard amplifiers that, even having linear sources, and being designs for the home and for audiophiles obsessed with minimum specifications, used regulated sources, but removed the "speed" and rhythm of the bass. There is an instantaneous current demand time and with a few milliseconds delay in the power supply when it needs to respond to fast low frequency transients, that is audible...
An amplifier for public address use, "vintage", with linear sources and without sophisticated regulations (complicated circuits), at most with current limiters, but generous in power and somewhat oversized "on purpose", with large transformers and filtering capacitors, They gave unmatched authority to the bass. I have never been able to find them in these amplifiers with " conmutadas " sources that, in my opinion, have only become fashionable due to a question of weight and costs. But everything "is paid for."
As always, you can't have the "best of both worlds", linear and generous PWS, and DSP and parametric EQ all in one.
But it could be a good idea for a DIY enthusiast, don't you think?
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Sorry, I don't have any experience with specific models from either company.
Archaea
Active Member
The inuke dsp 3000 will output below 20Hz. Indeed it is tested to be one of the stronger amps below 20hz by the DIY testing group on AVS forum. Its DSP won’t let you directly address frequencies below 20Hz, but the inuke is still generating significant output voltage at those lower inaudible frequencies.
If I can't access below 20 hertz through the software, what's the point? Is there another way to achieve it? I tried to eliminate that restriction, I even tried to do it through EQ. and I didn't succeed. But if there is a way to do it, I would be very happy. If you can provide a link it would be very useful for everyone....
Archaea
Active Member
How to set a High Pass filter below 20Hz.If I can't access below 20 hertz through the software, what's the point? Is there another way to achieve it? I tried to eliminate that restriction, I even tried to do it through EQ. and I didn't succeed. But if there is a way to do it, I would be very happy. If you can provide a link it would be very useful for everyone....
bench tests showing the inuke has plenty of power down to 10Hz and below.
Luke's basic amplifier tests
EDIT: The testing methodology was updated to use a non-reactive load (water heater elements). I purchased 10 of these (Camco 6000w 240v low watt density):https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Screw--Foldback-Heater-Element/dp/B000PSB3B2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468811988&sr=8-1&keywords=camco+6...
Another great test by notnyt here:
Another bench test showing respectful performance.
Behringer inuke NU6000 vs KAM KXD7200 bench tested
I thought it was about time to put some figures down on what these budget class-D's can do so they...
Andysu
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behringer is class D . It consists of various unremarkable ores, essentially a great amp in space
i travel though the vangelis THX cosmos universe to sort of figure a tuning for what if maybe was possible for air sound music to be heard ? i think i have to leave this to , suspension disbelief and imagination
sub crossover at -48dB L-R other channels Lc Rc inner channels using for present non sync music dsp the bass cabs down low and then HF horns
i think i try with the below surround and subs see makes sense of behringer class d in the universe
i travel though the vangelis THX cosmos universe to sort of figure a tuning for what if maybe was possible for air sound music to be heard ? i think i have to leave this to , suspension disbelief and imagination
sub crossover at -48dB L-R other channels Lc Rc inner channels using for present non sync music dsp the bass cabs down low and then HF horns
i think i try with the below surround and subs see makes sense of behringer class d in the universe
Last edited:
How to set a High Pass filter below 20Hz.
bench tests showing the inuke has plenty of power down to 10Hz and below.
Luke's basic amplifier tests
EDIT: The testing methodology was updated to use a non-reactive load (water heater elements). I purchased 10 of these (Camco 6000w 240v low watt density):https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Screw--Foldback-Heater-Element/dp/B000PSB3B2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468811988&sr=8-1&keywords=camco+6...data-bass.ipbhost.com
Another great test by notnyt here:
Another bench test showing respectful performance.
Behringer inuke NU6000 vs KAM KXD7200 bench tested
I thought it was about time to put some figures down on what these budget class-D's can do so they...forum.speakerplans.com
We still have internet outages here after a tremendous tornado that devastated an entire city, so I can't access it until the connection is normalized, thank you !
Temporal en Argentina deja al menos 14 muertos | Video
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How to set a High Pass filter below 20Hz.
bench tests showing the inuke has plenty of power down to 10Hz and below.
Luke's basic amplifier tests
EDIT: The testing methodology was updated to use a non-reactive load (water heater elements). I purchased 10 of these (Camco 6000w 240v low watt density):https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Screw--Foldback-Heater-Element/dp/B000PSB3B2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468811988&sr=8-1&keywords=camco+6...
Another great test by notnyt here:
Another bench test showing respectful performance.
Behringer inuke NU6000 vs KAM KXD7200 bench tested
I thought it was about time to put some figures down on what these budget class-D's can do so they...
Here is another link with the modifications that the author claims result in a response up to 2 hertz......it is an Inuke 6000.
I'm not really excited about doing it, especially when it says that:
" I did not want to mess with anything on the "amplified" side of the board since I firstly don't really understand how it works and secondly it can be potentially leathal with its high voltage DC rails etc... "
So, if there is no solution to lower the low range by acting on the software of my NX3000D, I think I will resign myself to listening to my subwoofers without the frequencies below 20 hertz......
Which makes me sad, because surely the behavior of the harmonics should improve....
Archaea
Active Member
You are getting frequencies below 20Hz on the inuke (even if slightly attenuated) and you are getting them stronger than most other pro audio amps. Both my links and your link show this. If you think otherwise you don’t understand what you are reading.Here is another link with the modifications that the author claims result in a response up to 2 hertz......it is an Inuke 6000.
I'm not really excited about doing it, especially when it says that:
" I did not want to mess with anything on the "amplified" side of the board since I firstly don't really understand how it works and secondly it can be potentially leathal with its high voltage DC rails etc... "
So, if there is no solution to lower the low range by acting on the software of my NX3000D, I think I will resign myself to listening to my subwoofers without the frequencies below 20 hertz......
Which makes me sad, because surely the behavior of the harmonics should improve....
If you find how to go below 20 Hz using the NXEdit software, send me the link, thank you. I have Bheringer NX3000D, not Bheringer Inuke, I thought that was clear. By the way, I have never seen a more horrible designed amplifier than the Inuke, I would never put one of those in my living room.
Have a good holiday at the end of the year!
Have a good holiday at the end of the year!
Archaea
Active Member
The guts are pretty much identical, as has been shown in teardowns. The inuke and the NX are effectively the same amp just in a different chassis. The inuke is uglier than the NX, so what? It was half the price of the NX series. I paid $350 for my inuke dsp 6000s. The NX3000D is now $479. Behringer realized they had too good of pricing on the iNuke relative the market and decided to pretty up the chassis and re-release under a new name and jack up the price. Almost double the price actually. So inuke DSP or NX DSP it’s immaterial. It’s even the same DSP control software.
Your own link shows it plays well below 20hz, AND shows how to make it flat to 10Hz in post 16
The link I provide shows how to set an HPF below 20Hz, even if the software only lets you directly address 20hz and above. If you had a ported sub and needed a lower frequency HPF like 16Hz. The settings you chose in the DSP affect below 20Hz.
Without changing a single thing you are still getting frequencies below 20Hz from your NX series amp. It isn’t cutting off content below 20Hz. To illustrate this play a 5Hz test tone. Your sealed driver will be moving plenty. Here are a whole bunch of low frequency sine waves you can test with to see yourself.
PS. Don’t play a 5Hz test tone at loud volumes for a long period of time unless you know the excursion capability of your driver. It’s a good way to damage a driver. Do it for a quick test, start at a low volume and increase volume slowly as to make sure your driver isn’t going to go xmech.
Merry Christmas to you as well.
Hi archea
When I noticed that the limit on the NX3000D (in the NXEdit software) was 20Hz on the low end, I played lower low frequency tones with Audacity and yes, you are right, you can play and perceive individual tones below 20Hz. until the moment when you only see the cone move but hear nothing. Some will say the limit is 16 Hz, others will say they hear even lower.
But they are individual notes. In music, there are harmonics that overlap the fundamental notes and that changes the sound, enriching it. If your amplifier plays 10hz, it will be modulating to the upper notes creating harmonics. No filter produces such an abrupt drop that it completely eliminates all frequencies below 20 Hz. It would also be nonsense. In a sealed cabinet you will have a slope of 12 db Db/octave, in a bass reflex cabinet it is double that, 24 Db/octave, but it falls more abruptly. So, whether filtering by software or by physical means, some frequencies will always pass below 20 Hz. I repeat that it is a slope, it is not an abrupt "step" type cut, a vertical drop at 90 degrees. Well, I would like to know what that slope is, Bheringher says that the FR of NX3000D is 20 to 20000 Hz +0/-1 Db. But it does not provide any graph to see what happens at frequencies less than 20 Hz. I only found one to clarify the difference between class AB and D. I'm just saying that I would like to be able to access and be able to manipulate that slope, but I won't lose my dream because of it. There's not much there in most music, and while I like the music of Bach and others, listening to organ pleases me, but a lot of the time it's boring, although there are a lot of harmonics in there that fascinate me. Thanks for your answers, I hope you change your mind - about my understanding of this topic - after reading this and if not, that's okay.
My English is very basic, so I hope it is understood, inevitably there may be misunderstandings. From both sides.
Happy New Year 2024 to you.
When I noticed that the limit on the NX3000D (in the NXEdit software) was 20Hz on the low end, I played lower low frequency tones with Audacity and yes, you are right, you can play and perceive individual tones below 20Hz. until the moment when you only see the cone move but hear nothing. Some will say the limit is 16 Hz, others will say they hear even lower.
But they are individual notes. In music, there are harmonics that overlap the fundamental notes and that changes the sound, enriching it. If your amplifier plays 10hz, it will be modulating to the upper notes creating harmonics. No filter produces such an abrupt drop that it completely eliminates all frequencies below 20 Hz. It would also be nonsense. In a sealed cabinet you will have a slope of 12 db Db/octave, in a bass reflex cabinet it is double that, 24 Db/octave, but it falls more abruptly. So, whether filtering by software or by physical means, some frequencies will always pass below 20 Hz. I repeat that it is a slope, it is not an abrupt "step" type cut, a vertical drop at 90 degrees. Well, I would like to know what that slope is, Bheringher says that the FR of NX3000D is 20 to 20000 Hz +0/-1 Db. But it does not provide any graph to see what happens at frequencies less than 20 Hz. I only found one to clarify the difference between class AB and D. I'm just saying that I would like to be able to access and be able to manipulate that slope, but I won't lose my dream because of it. There's not much there in most music, and while I like the music of Bach and others, listening to organ pleases me, but a lot of the time it's boring, although there are a lot of harmonics in there that fascinate me. Thanks for your answers, I hope you change your mind - about my understanding of this topic - after reading this and if not, that's okay.
My English is very basic, so I hope it is understood, inevitably there may be misunderstandings. From both sides.
Happy New Year 2024 to you.
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PS:
www.audioholics.com
I was reading about a new class D amplifier from NAD, and came across this graph. You can compare it with the graph from this same thread and see "what happens below 20 Hz"
NAD M23 Master Series Stereo Amplifier Test Report
The NAD M23 is a 200wpc stereo amp that utilizes the SOTA Class D Purifi 1ET400A reference design to push the envelope of performance and efficiency. Is this the best measuring amp in our 23+ year history?
I was reading about a new class D amplifier from NAD, and came across this graph. You can compare it with the graph from this same thread and see "what happens below 20 Hz"
Attachments
this may be a good example of "test vs real world discrepancy"... in the PA world i've heard some call class D amp power "modern watts".
the perceived SPL of music vs a sine wave test in a resistive load of a class D amp is one of those experiences that leaves one wondering "what's the trick?"
a (proper) class D amp that claims 1600W per channel tests only marginally higher voltages into an 8ohms resistor than an old 400W AB amp (say 66V vs 56V) but when measuring the PA's SPL playing music, it registers an impressive +6dB. so something must be wrong somewhere...
the class D pro amps have impressive power densities BUT only available in very short bursts, between say 200ms to 500ms (visible w/ an oscilloscope). if the testing equipment misses or averages out that short duration peak, one is forced to conclude the peak power is misrepresented by the manufacturer (compensating w/ additional wattage presents a real danger of damaging transducers).
because in the real world that short peak power burst is more than enough to make the actual music sound much louder since the average power demand even for heavy low-end programs/music is quite timid compared to a classic "sine wave test" (and i suspect psychoacoustics also play a role, namely the min signal duration required for perceiving loudness and pitch).
now, i'm not familiar w/ the tested product, but i thought i should mention that even prestigious manufacturers 'fail' the classic resistive load tests when it comes to thousands of watts range amps... but do their amps deliver the advertised higher SPLs compared to older AB amps? always, and i hope we understand better the 'magic' of 'modern watts': pro class D vs pro class AB amps is not an apples-to-apples watts comparison.
the perceived SPL of music vs a sine wave test in a resistive load of a class D amp is one of those experiences that leaves one wondering "what's the trick?"
a (proper) class D amp that claims 1600W per channel tests only marginally higher voltages into an 8ohms resistor than an old 400W AB amp (say 66V vs 56V) but when measuring the PA's SPL playing music, it registers an impressive +6dB. so something must be wrong somewhere...
the class D pro amps have impressive power densities BUT only available in very short bursts, between say 200ms to 500ms (visible w/ an oscilloscope). if the testing equipment misses or averages out that short duration peak, one is forced to conclude the peak power is misrepresented by the manufacturer (compensating w/ additional wattage presents a real danger of damaging transducers).
because in the real world that short peak power burst is more than enough to make the actual music sound much louder since the average power demand even for heavy low-end programs/music is quite timid compared to a classic "sine wave test" (and i suspect psychoacoustics also play a role, namely the min signal duration required for perceiving loudness and pitch).
now, i'm not familiar w/ the tested product, but i thought i should mention that even prestigious manufacturers 'fail' the classic resistive load tests when it comes to thousands of watts range amps... but do their amps deliver the advertised higher SPLs compared to older AB amps? always, and i hope we understand better the 'magic' of 'modern watts': pro class D vs pro class AB amps is not an apples-to-apples watts comparison.
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