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Behringer NX3000D Pro DSP Amplifier Review

kipman725

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The tests here although useful extra data are not representative of the performance in driving subwoofers which is the typical usage of such amps. Almost every modern high power PA amp cannot sustain maximum power forever, they are limited by the power supply and or thermally. In actual usage this is not an issue as all music must have some dynamic range so even the most sustained sine wave bass lines only last a few seconds. Tests of output power over time like this: http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/917-robs-amp-tests/ are way more useful for the intended application than finding the inflection point in the THD+N graph with a long duration sweep. The power tests that are done at ASR are perfectly applicable to traditional class AB amplifiers where the limiting behavior is caused by the voltage of the power supply rails but are insufficient to characterize amplifiers with complex limiting characteristics.

if you look at the datasheet of a high end touring amp you will see that the available output power is dependent on many factors and peak to avarage ratios of input signal:
https://www.powersoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/powersoft_TSeries_DS_EN_WEB.pdf
 

audioBliss

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To be fair most companies have hit and miss products.
This amp works very well when bridged for subwoofers. Did you see the sweep I posted of the sub driven by this amp earlier in the thread? A better alternative than this amp is the NX6000d since it is basically like two bridged 3000's in one case. The 6000 provides a legit 15-1800 watts/channel into a 4 ohm load. I used an NX6000d on a pair of 8 ohm subs and it would provides about 1,000 per channel. Not much price difference between the 3000 and 6000.

Noctua fans do make them essentially dead silent unless your in an anechoic chamber, but I feel lifespan is likely reduced with less cooling.

I should have been more clear. What I mean is that this amp does not seem to be an upgrade over other traditional cheap PA amps like the EP4000, the older NU6000, Crown etc. I have an EP4000 driving several subwoofers but I've been interested in alternatives due to the bass quality I'm hearing from high end class D. Not having seen any measurement of the EP4000 I'm assuming it's nothing special so if any standout PA shows up I'll probably take chance on it. I'm sure this amp is fine for subs but I doubt it's an upgrade from previous models in any meaningful way.
 

peterk

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It should be common knowledge, that behringer power ratings are not RMS values. Months ago in the older brochure behringer did in fact stated the RMS powers for all of their NX devices, but in the new one its not there anymore. I may have it still somewhere. Btw these NX models are basically rebadged Inuke models. On youtube there are measurements made on Inuke models. Long story short, just get 2/3 of their rated power and that will be the RMS more or less. That is true even for the A800...

Fan noise is really unbearable, this is why literally everybody who uses a NX amp in a HT setup replaces it with a Noctua fan or something silent. It is a simply screw out, screws in, plug in plug out. NX3000 models and below have one fan, NX6000 has two. I personally have a NX6000D with Noctua NF A8 fans and after fan replacement this thing is dead silent, and stone cold even after hours of usage and im powering a pair of 18 inch subwoofers with it.

Also, nobody ever recommends this amp to power mains or surrounds. Everybody is considering the NX series as one of the best price value ratio subwoofer amplifier especially the 6000/6000D version, that can power a pair of subs with 1200W 8 Ohm RMS. Similarly priced Crown XLS can only power one single sub, and has a really dumb DSP if i can call that even a DSP...

So in my opinion, NX amps are really recommended even for home use, but that usage should be as a subwoofer amp with the fans replaced. Under these conditions this thing is hard to beat.
 

Severian

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Add me to the list of people happily using one of these with a Noctua fan to power subwoofers.
 

ENG

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Interesting to read. Anybody knows about Stageline STA-1000D Digital stereo PA with Pascal modules earlier mentioned of a member in this thread ?
 

audioBliss

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Also it's one of the few models I know of that uses 12V fans so like you say computer fans can be used. Noctua is the way to go there for sure..The EP4000 has 24V so unless you have the skills to solder in some stuff to make it 12V compatible you have to buy a quiet 24V fan and those are a bit pricey and not as good as Noctua.
 

Bear123

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Also, it would appear that for subwoofer duty i.e. below 200 Hz, SINAD would be better than -100 dB? The bottom line is that these are cheap, not great for full range, but great bang for the buck for sub duty if willing to modify.

Personally, I had the NX6000d. Stock fans are much quieter than the 3000 and *almost* bearable even in my living room. However, definitely not silent which would require $30 worth of Noctua fans. These amps will NEVER feel hot, even when overheating and shutting down as the components that overheat are very small. So that fact that it seems cool doesn't mean the cooling might be inadequate and lead to shorter life. I previously had a Inuke6000 and it bit the dust in less than three years using Noctua fans....higher CFM and static pressure than what most folks used as I used the PWM version.

Also, your amp will fill up with dust over time, and getting up to manually turn the amp on and off was not my cup of tea. Rigging in a relay to give auto on functionality on a very high power amp in my house with a family also not something I was interested in. All of which contributed to my switch to ID subs.
 

kipman725

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Funny thing about the inuke amps is they actually do have temp controlled fans when you look at the schematics but when you look at the component values in the circuit you realize that its not been designed properly and the fans will just go full speed from quite a low temp with no ramp. Also on the 6000 model the output MOSFETS are heatsinked to the bottom plate so getting quiet cooling with as good as stock performance isn't going to happen without more extensive modifications than I see on the net. The stock high static pressure fans are to get air under the circuit board. I think people get away with the quiet fans because they are not pushing their amps, when I have pushed the NU6000D in PA situations the air comes out the back warm. It also delivers enough power to cook drivers like the 21DS115 if fed compressed content so is a decent budget option to power two subs.
 

ehabheikal

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I'm surprised this one did not get a headless panther with a noisy fan and a SINAD below what even those skeptical of the need for high SINAD amplifiers. It does have a lot of power, but not not near what the manufacturer rates it for. Perhaps an A800 or a Crown XLS is a better fit for cheap power.

For those of us not initaited into the way of the panther, a simple guide will help us understand this path :)
Which panthers are good and which are bad?
 

jhaider

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did you test the power in bridged mode? as this still could be effective as a sub amp.

Note that power at 20Hz (268W/ch) is barely above half of average max power (404W/ch - shown on different graph). I wouldn't expect that to change in bridged mode.

index.php


The tests here although useful extra data are not representative of the performance in driving subwoofers which is the typical usage of such amps.

See above. That seems like useful information to me.
 

beefkabob

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I'd be concerned about the non-linearity for use as a general amp, and still concerned with regards to subs. You can't tune this out with REW unless you stick to one volume all the time.
 
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amirm

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The tests here although useful extra data are not representative of the performance in driving subwoofers which is the typical usage of such amps. Almost every modern high power PA amp cannot sustain maximum power forever, they are limited by the power supply and or thermally. In actual usage this is not an issue as all music must have some dynamic range so even the most sustained sine wave bass lines only last a few seconds. Tests of output power over time like this: http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/917-robs-amp-tests/ are way more useful for the intended application than finding the inflection point in the THD+N graph with a long duration sweep.
I read the start of that post and what they describe is precisely what I run in the test on the right:
index.php


What he is doing manually, my Audio Precision analyzer does automatically. It feeds a burst signal per CEA-2006/490A and then adjusts the input up and down until it achieves a 1% THD+N.

The graph on the left does the same but uses a continuous sine wave. As you see, there is hardly any burst/peak headroom in this amplifier (12%). This is typical of many amplifiers that use a switching power supply.
 

ace_xp2

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I'd be concerned about the non-linearity for use as a general amp, and still concerned with regards to subs. You can't tune this out with REW unless you stick to one volume all the time.

Unless I'm misinterpreting, the difference from 20-500hz is all of 5db max across the range with gradual curvature in both graphs, is that a big deal? As regards this it's a little out of my wheelhouse, so honestly asking.

Don't forget too that in many subwoofer applications you'll already be at least 48db down by the time you get to 400hz (100hz/24db crossover). Many of the sub systems these will power will be crossed a good bit lower then 100hz.
 

beefkabob

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With that in mind, testing at 20hz and 100hz would be useful. Or 20hz and 60z, since I cross at 60. The fact that the rest of the frequencies are all over the place makes me nervous. But this is a pretty mediocre amp. I'd probably skip it entirely.

Unless I'm misinterpreting, the difference from 20-500hz is all of 5db max across the range with gradual curvature in both graphs, is that a big deal? As regards this it's a little out of my wheelhouse, so honestly asking.

Don't forget too that in many subwoofer applications you'll already be at least 48db down by the time you get to 400hz (100hz/24db crossover). Many of the sub systems these will power will be crossed a good bit lower then 100hz.
 

kipman725

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ah my mistake I realize, the reason your numbers are not what I expected for burst ratings is caused by the distortion threshold been 1% and the load not been the minimum of 2ohm. I'm most familier with the NU6000D which gets about 2000W into 4 ohm burst which would correspond to 500W into 4 ohm for the non bridged version (NX3000). I think you would see a bigger difference between burst and continous if you briged the amplifer at which point the output is limited by the power supplys current capability and the voltage rails will start to sag.
 

304290

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I've been wondering for a while now, do you consider price when picking Panthers?

I think he does. I've saw budget products that perform well for their price that gets an "ok" panther and a much more expensive product of the same type with similar measurements get the "not recommended" panther.
 
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