Audiophile Heaven With Only Two Components

[arancano]

Is the room divider comprised of acoustic panels? If so where did you get it. I have a room that is open to a larger room on one side as I suspect you have also.

Ahh, the room. It's gotten better looking (my taste) and better sounding (confirmed by measurements) over the years. The only thing inside he credenza is the Fosi. Gone are the many components that resided on top and inside. I prefer the minimalist vibe.

The acoustic panels are inside the wooden slat frames, which I designed and built. I don't play violins, but they are my favorite instrument. The panels to which you refer are simply a means to recreate a wall, placing the speakers at about the same distance from both side walls. The panels are made of wood. It's a Chinese relief painting. I always wanted something like it, and it happened one day Amazon...

Without the divider, the sound image is not centered, and the width, height, and depth of the stage is not well-formed. Sonically, I would have preferred acoustic panels. However, I downsized homes and no longer have a dedicated listening room. Compromises have to be made, but I don't really have any regrets. The painting on the left is also a favorite. It's nice to combine great sound and aesthetics you love into a single experience.

Someone earlier observed the clock at the bottom left. Some of us retirees need to be reminded, not just of the time, but of the day of the week and period of the day. Of course, it displays in a font suitable for seniors. When I can no longer read the small print, I know I need new lenses

 

[melomane13]

I am finally completely content with my audio system.

Wonderfull

The Fosi P20A Pro was the final addition to my downsized two-component system. Key to its success, and extremely modest price tag were:

OK , with power 48v is 118.50 $

1) A pair of superb Q Acoustics Concept 50 speakers.

ok! seem good speaker.

2) A pair of Sparkos Dual op amps to replace the Fosi's stock op amps.

79,80 x 2 = 159,60 $ Wow! more than for amplifier...

3) Using the immensely affordable and unbelievably good sounding Micca 14 gauge pure copper speaker wire.

correctly made and not very espensive. BUT "good sounding " for cable is not a statement that makes sense.

4) Bi-wiring the Q Acoustic speakers affordably with the Micca wire.

another belief invented by cable sellers to sell their products...

 

[arancano]

The thing is that even when it is $ 60.- thrown away it isn't much money and if it helps you believe the system sounds better it will be totally worth it.

It just perpetuates the idea that swapping opamps is useful.
Also, after the 'all discrete' circuit that is basically the same as what's in an opamp but then on one chip, it is still followed by a chip based power amp.

In the end it is all about the experience of the owner/user of the system.

You may well be right and op amp swapping may just be a placebo, but it is a sweet placebo, as sweet as a slice of Marie Callender's Chocolate silk pie. Darn, it's too late to have a taste and still get some sleep.

 

[arancano]

Congratulations on reaching contentment, that's surprisingly hard to do.
Glad you got there, enjoy your music

Thank you all.

 

[solderdude]

Placebo can be very nice and in some cases certainly worth the investment.. but in the end it still is placebo.

 

[arancano]

Wonderfull


OK , with power 48v is 118.50 $

ok! seem good speaker.

79,80 x 2 = 159,60 $ Wow! more than for amplifier...

correctly made and not very espensive. BUT "good sounding " for cable is not a statement that makes sense.

another belief invented by cable sellers to sell their products...

Hi, melomane 13: You are right, a 48v power supply brings the cost of the Fosi to over $100. I have it, although in my situation I cannot detect a sound difference over the lower powered bricks. Most likely, it is because I am using fairly efficient speakers with 90.5db sensitivity.

The cost of the Sparkos was $60, not $80. At either price, the addition costs more than the amp itself. They certainly did not appear to be a good value proposition, until I tried them. I have not seen commenters critical of the Sparkos or the Mica speaker wire who have actually tried the products. I don't buy anything I cannot return. If both of these items were not returnable, I certainly would not have tried them.

These products, as well as bi-wiring, do not improve performance in every situation. I've tried bi-wiring with over a dozen speakers. The practice does not improve performance with the Martin Logan, Focal, and Bowers and Wilkins models I tried. Other speakers are quite responsive to bi-wiring. The Sonus faber Lumina lI bookshelves and my Q Acoustic towers change quite dramatically, for the better, with bi-wiring.

Disagreements on bi-wiring, op amp swapping, and speakers cables are seldom resolved because of varying experiences. I enjoy reading different points of view because I don't take them as absolutes. I totally belief those who think all of these products or methods are a waste of time, particularly if they have tried them and found them wanting and not synergistic with other gear they have.

My apologies for overextending and calling the Mica speaker cables "good sounding". My opinion is that speaker cables should not color sound. How does one know if a cable is neutral? That is a very good subject for discussion that others more qualified and experienced I'm sure have taken up already.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I'm glad you are happy. It as amazing how good a system you can build for very little money

 

[Mart68]

Wonderful room. I'm familiar with your speakers and that space looks ideal for them to do their best.

 

[WillBrink]

After half a century as an audiophile, I am finally completely content with my audio system. I am enjoying my music like never before. The journey took me through dozens of speakers and electronics and many thousands of dollars. The expensive travel fortunately met its end before my own expiration date arrives. I look forward to at least a dozen more years of music listening bliss.

The Fosi P20A Pro was the final addition to my downsized two-component system. Key to its success, and extremely modest price tag were:

1) A pair of superb Q Acoustics Concept 50 speakers.
2) A pair of Sparkos Dual op amps to replace the Fosi's stock op amps.
3) Using the immensely affordable and unbelievably good sounding Micca 14 gauge pure copper speaker wire.

If that's not an attempt at humor, you came to the wrong forum...

Anyway, streamlining and downsizing can be accomplished in todays tech easily. A pair of good actives and a phone as the source can sound excellent I found.

 

[mglobe]

Ahh, the room. It's gotten better looking (my taste) and better sounding (confirmed by measurements) over the years. The only thing inside he credenza is the Fosi. Gone are the many components that resided on top and inside. I prefer the minimalist vibe.

The acoustic panels are inside the wooden slat frames, which I designed and built. I don't play violins, but they are my favorite instrument. The panels to which you refer are simply a means to recreate a wall, placing the speakers at about the same distance from both side walls. The panels are made of wood. It's a Chinese relief painting. I always wanted something like it, and it happened one day Amazon...

Without the divider, the sound image is not centered, and the width, height, and depth of the stage is not well-formed. Sonically, I would have preferred acoustic panels. However, I downsized homes and no longer have a dedicated listening room. Compromises have to be made, but I don't really have any regrets. The painting on the left is also a favorite. It's nice to combine great sound and aesthetics you love into a single experience.

Someone earlier observed the clock at the bottom left. Some of us retirees need to be reminded, not just of the time, but of the day of the week and period of the day. Of course, it displays in a font suitable for seniors. When I can no longer read the small print, I know I need new lenses

My wife gave me a clock that has one hand, and only has the days of the week on it.

 

[arancano]

If that's not an attempt at humor, you came to the wrong forum...

Anyway, streamlining and downsizing can be accomplished in todays tech easily. A pair of good actives and a phone as the source can sound excellent I found.

100%.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

Several comments here missed the point. Actually, we should congratulate the OP for selling all his expensive ($50K!) high-end gear (including expensive cables!) and using (and enjoying) only low-cost, but excellent Fosi and medium-priced Q Acoustic. Phone, which OP has it anyway, acting as a streamer - smart move! MIcca cables are also low-cost, so we can totally forgive the bi-wiring controversy. Sparcos OP-amps? A little bit of indulging is allowed, I believe - especially in a view of their not-so-excessive price.

 

[kemmler3D]

Congrats on dialing in the system with a minimal setup. Elegance is worth something even if you can't see it in the THD chart.

How does one know if a cable is neutral? That is a very good subject for discussion that others more qualified and experienced I'm sure have taken up already.

I'm not here to scold you for attributing sound quality to cables. Perhaps the most enlightened listener is one that can knowingly but successfully apply placebo to themselves. but I can at least partly answer this one.

As I understand it, you simply measure the electrical properties of the cable (resistance, inductance, capacitance) and in basically any consumer application, this tells you everything that could realistically impact the sound. So if two cables come up with the same values then you can be confident there will be no variance in sound. I think this is something anyone with half an electrical engineering degree under their belt could do, which is not me, but there are quite a few such folks floating around here.

Or, you can simply run a signal through the cable and see how much it's changed at the other end. As far as I know, in all such tests of short (read: 50ft or less) , non-defective copper cables, the impact on the sound by the cable has been quite negligible.

This is why the membership here is so crabby about cables being described as having a sound. Probably nowhere else in the audio world is so much money spent on a category that (according to objective measurements) makes so little difference to the sound. It bothers folks to think money is going to fancified cables when it could be going to nicer speakers.

Cables can noticeably affect the sound, but as far as I know the cable runs need to be pretty long, like 100s of feet. This obviously comes up in live / stage sound, installations, commercial stuff, but it's rare to have a cable run that long in a home system.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

How does one know if a cable is neutral? That is a very good subject for discussion that others more qualified and experienced I'm sure have taken up already.

Yes, there is and has been plenty of discussion. In general, all sensibly sized and constructed speaker cable with an AWG of 10 or 12 is neutral.

Where there can be an audible difference is where there is an interaction between the speaker, the amplifier and the cable. Excellent amplifiers with good PSUs and low resistive output impedance should be largely immune to most sensible cable and speaker interactions. But it is possible to build cables which can create an interaction - however most engineers would advise against using weird speaker cable conductors or topologies.

This is a more thorough research paper than many, which concludes classically designed twin cables of around 12AWG are a good compromise:

Fred E. Davis Effects of Cable, Loudspeaker, and Amplifier Interactions - Google Search

 

[arancano]

Yes, there is and has been plenty of discussion. In general, all sensibly sized and constructed speaker cable with an AWG of 10 or 12 is neutral.

Where there can be an audible difference is where there is an interaction between the speaker, the amplifier and the cable. Excellent amplifiers with good PSUs and low resistive output impedance should be largely immune to most sensible cable and speaker interactions. But it is possible to build cables which can create an interaction - however most engineers would advise against using weird speaker cable conductors or topologies.

This is a more thorough research paper than many, which concludes classically designed twin cables of around 12AWG are a good compromise:

Fred E. Davis Effects of Cable, Loudspeaker, and Amplifier Interactions - Google Search

You put it so well. Ascribing sound to a cable, as I did, was a mistake. I should have made clear, as I tried to in a later comment, that switching to the Micca cable was a no-brainer for the simple reason that, in my rig, the expensive cable did not offer an advantage in any category used to describe sound fidelity. The expensive cable was also much thicker and difficult to work with; as were its connectors.

I could not have afforded to bi-wire with the expensive cable. Bi-wiring itself is a controversial subject. It seems to be highly dependent on the gear used at either end, probably for the reasons you mentioned in your comment. With some speakers you can clearly tell a difference; with others none whatsoever. Why that is so in particular situations is above my pay grade.

 

[JayGilb]

After half a century as an audiophile, I am finally completely content with my audio system. I am enjoying my music like never before. The journey took me through dozens of speakers and electronics and many thousands of dollars. The expensive travel fortunately met its end before my own expiration date arrives. I look forward to at least a dozen more years of music listening bliss.

The Fosi P20A Pro was the final addition to my downsized two-component system. Key to its success, and extremely modest price tag were:

1) A pair of superb Q Acoustics Concept 50 speakers.
2) A pair of Sparkos Dual op amps to replace the Fosi's stock op amps.
3) Using the immensely affordable and unbelievably good sounding Micca 14 gauge pure copper speaker wire.
4) Bi-wiring the Q Acoustic speakers affordably with the Micca wire.
5) Correcting my hearing deficiencies with a pair of Jabra top-of-the-line hearing aids (there is a Costco equivalent).
6) A Samsung S21 FE 5G phone with superb internal DAC.
7) An acoustically right, but hardly over-the-top music listening space.

That's it! A two component setup, three counting the phone. I've had rigs costing up to $50K, and worked at a hi-end audio retailer for five years. Downsizing to a $6K rig (including hearing aids and phone) while achieving the kind of sound most audiophiles dream about is something many will find hard to believe. I'd be lying if I said I thought it possible just a few months ago. In truth, affordable and high quality hearing aids became available about two years ago. The Fosi, and class D amplification, are a fairly recent phenomena.

And, synergy is everything. I dare say the exceptionally musical sound I now hear would not be if all of the above were not in place. The rig excels in all of the categories used to described hi-end audio. I suspect the one item most likely to be overlooked is hearing testing and the acquisition of affordable hi-end hearing aids if needed (less than $2K, most brands run over $5K). Most folks don't think of our ears as a component in the music appreciation chain. But it is for more people than you think, and you only know how important a role it plays for music listening once you correct any existing deficiencies.

My journey results have withstood the test of time. Sure, I would like to hear how some new promising technology sounds, but I'd be doing it out of curiosity, not for wanting something better. It's hard to describe; the desire is simply not there. I've enjoyed music throughout my journey, but having arrived at a music reproduction destination sure feels good. Now retired, it's wonderful having the time to explore a quickly evolving music genre - Americana.

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Congrats on finding happiness with your audio rig.

 

[SIY]

With some speakers you can clearly tell a difference;

Can you give an example and how you determined this? Superposition would seem to negate that claim, but if there's actual evidence...

 

[arancano]

Can you give an example and how you determined this? Superposition would seem to negate that claim, but if there's actual evidence...

My purpose with this post was not to engage in a debate over bi-wiring. It does not always work, and there are too many variables over which folks can argue endlessly. I simply wanted to share my satisfaction with the rig I now have, and offer options that worked for me and people could try if interested.

The one thing I feel strongest about, and would love to influence folks on, is testing hearing ability and correcting deficiencies. All of the members in our 14-strong audiophile club have tested their hearing. Ten, including myself, had hearing loss. We have all corrected our hearing problems over the last two years. Looking at the original hearing test results helped to explain why we often heard the same music differently. We still don't have universal agreement in our evaluations, which is ok. Disagreements are healthy, but we now concur far more often than not.

That's why I don't disagree with audiophile observations, no matter how different they may be from mine. I would love to see everyone, especially reviewers, publish their hearing stats, just like specs are published for electronics. They would add significant credibility to the many assertions that are made.

 

[SIY]

My purpose with this post was not to engage in a debate over bi-wiring. It does not always work

When does it EVER work? Just one example.

 

[arancano]

You have it already, SIY. It works between the Fosi and my Q Acoustics Concept 50 speakers, as well as with my second system where I use Sonus faber Lumina IIs. It does not perform with my Klipsch RP-600M IIs.