Audio stutters with USB Dacs on Macbook M1 Pro

[Axo1989]

Tried the battery option, no luck. I still have to try to bypass the dock completely, but that's not really a viable option in the long run for me .

Anyway, just for fun, I noticed that if you force coreaudiod to have the maximum process priority, the sound cuts stop for a while (or at least drastically diminsh). I guess with time another process "regains" priority and it starts again, but it somewhat validates my theory that it's mainly a software problem.

If anyone wants to try:
In your terminal, identify the coreaudiod process with ps -ef | grep coreaudiod. This should return something like:
202 650 1 0 Mon07AM ?? 14:14.00 /usr/sbin/coreaudiod

The important number is the PID, in this case 650.

Then you can change the priority to the max, which is -20 with:
sudo renice -n "-20" -p 650

Where 650 is the PID that was returned in the previous command.

It would be interesting to know if it also fixes temporarily your issue or if there are different use cases.

That's the sort of thing I was looking for as a Terminal fix. If the issue returns for me I'll be trying it.

 

[Venture4663]

I have a 2021 16” and 14”, and have issues on both machines. Using a range of DACs from douk usb>coax, minidsp flex and RME ADI 2 FS BE and all stutter with more apps open.
Just adding myself to the thread for any future info.

 

[gabxav]

It seems that with the audirvana optimizations it solves the stutters problems

 

[gochristoph]

I have the same issue (with a RME ADI-2 DAC). Let me state some lessons that I learned over the roughly past year:

• High memory usage can reproduce the issue reliably.
• Increasing the sampling rate to 192 kHz intensifies the stuttering (to the extent that I even hear a tiny stutter via the integrated speakers on rare occasions when they are set to their maximum of 96 kHz, still the issue is much more pronounce for external USB audio interfaces)
• The issue also persists with a fresh installation of macOS (I had my laptop checked and wiped at an Apple Store).
• The issue started with a MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro. Just as others, I had no issue with my previous Intel MacBook Pro.

The glitches are also mentioned in other parts of the internet, but it seems like there is no critical mass so far for Apple or audio interface manufacturers to acknowledge the problem:

• https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29658
• https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=36868
• https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253476970
• https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253604816
• https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252727766
• https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254047956
• https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-pro-macbook-pro-use-with-third-party-dac-amps-daps.2324227/
• Reddit

Get in touch with Apple (especially if you have AppleCare+), point out our your issue and make sure that your voice is heard! Furthermore, use the Feedback Assistant app integrated in macOS to report the issue. It's not acceptable that we buy devices for thousands of dollars and they cannot even play music properly.

Moreover, get in touch with your audio interface manufacturers and report the issue.

 

[jayadubya]

I still have to try that Safari experiment! I'm so locked into Chrome from a working standpoint that it's super hard.

I did move 100% over to one browser (instead of two) and sometimes that works and I have no issues, but when I'm working a lot (many tabs) it comes back with a vengeance. I just use my fiio BTR5 via Bluetooth and I have zero stutters... but then why do I have this USB DAC?

I think Fiio should at least be able to duplicate this issue and figure it out - as should any other manufacturer. Surely a non-trivial number of USB DACs are hooked up to macs, and any new one is probably going to have this issue. I mean, not to let Apple off the hook either But if it's a well-known issue, at least try to explore it.

 

[DWPress]

Nobody has tried my suggestion of using a plugin host to increase latency/buffer the audio stream?

This audio issue is the main reason I upgraded to a M2 machine and sprung for the 24GB RAM option. My M1 mini exhibited the same problems everyone above has disclosed, buffering helped tremendously but not a good solution for video.

I agree, ridiculous problem to have on a machine so expensive and otherwise capable.

 

[Snoopy]

Zero issues here with roon, hardwired with LAN . Raspberry pi 4 with Roopiee (alsa, Linux) as endpoint.

I disabled most spotlight features and keep the M1 Mac awake with amphetamine.

I even tried streaming DSD files to two different endpoints with safari open in the background. Display closed and external monitor off.

 

[alye]

Just chiming in to follow the thread as well. I'm experiencing the same issue with a brand new 16" M1 MacBook Pro and RME Babyface Pro FS interface. No playback problems with my Intel-based Macs.

 

[bellamy]

I'm also chiming in to share the same issue I have with my 16" M1 Pro MacBook Pro with 16GB RAM paired with a Topping DX3 Pro and an OWC Thunderbolt Dock. Tried with a bunch of different USB to USB-C cables, hooking the DAC directly to the Mac, USB hubs, etc., all still suffer from stutters, dropouts, and occasional crackles in any media player. Basically pretty much the same issue everyone described here. On a daily basis, I'm at about 65-75% of memory pressure, so maybe this is the ridiculous cause after all?

At home, I'm using a similar setup as well with a direct 3.5mm cable from the Thunderbolt dock to the speakers, but without a DAC. I have yet to hear any dropouts when using the laptop at home.

I'm considering in getting this: https://www.audioquest.com/streaming-computer-audio/usb-data-power-noise-filter/jitterbug-fmj as this is the closest thing to an Oehlbach that is available in my country. Anyone had any experience with this one?

 

[DWPress]

I'm considering in getting this:

I believe those jitterbugs have been measured here by Amir and do absolutely nothing to help. I purchased one years ago for noisy USB ports and it didn't even help with that.

Still nobody trying a plugin host to solve? No reports back at least. Here is a link to a free host Kushview Element to experiment with. Set up your input and output device and increase the audio buffer size. This is how the people who mix music (often on Macs) deal with memory intensive tasks when running multiple plugins on multiple tracks during mixing and production.

Note: I have moved away from using Element myself as my signal routing is pretty intense and it wasn't playing nice with Mac OS recently but it should be just fine if used with limited plugins.

 

[Zensō]

I was able to solve this issue by setting latency in SoundSource to “More Reliable”, which uses a larger buffer.

 

[jayadubya]

I believe those jitterbugs have been measured here by Amir and do absolutely nothing to help. I purchased one years ago for noisy USB ports and it didn't even help with that.

Still nobody trying a plugin host to solve? No reports back at least. Here is a link to a free host Kushview Element to experiment with. Set up your input and output device and increase the audio buffer size. This is how the people who mix music (often on Macs) deal with memory intensive tasks when running multiple plugins on multiple tracks during mixing and production.

Note: I have moved away from using Element myself as my signal routing is pretty intense and it wasn't playing nice with Mac OS recently but it should be just fine if used with limited plugins.

Thanks, DW - that is helpful. I've got Element running now, and I've cranked the buffer size up to 1536 samples.

I don't really understand how to use DAWs etc (not much of a musician) but I assume if I just have element open it's applying that that buffer to the FiiO K7 as long as it's open and running? My graph shows these two sources, input and out, as well as the Midi Devices.

Thanks for your help! Hope this works...

 

[DWPress]

Thanks, DW - that is helpful.

Glad it has helped! @acbarn did the same thing in SoundSource (paid app with great utility) same thing with less control, similar results and potentially system wide, I use it too.

I assume if I just have element open it's applying that that buffer to the FiiO K7 as long as it's open and running?

Yes, you can have Element automatically start on login in the background in your Mac user preferences. It only affects the defined audio streamed you specified in Element Preferences. You can try to back off on the buffer, usually start by doubling the default - every time you raise the buffer it increases latency. As I mentioned, only a problem with video sync.

Beware if you are a Roon user. It has a significant memory leak if you have a large library on Macs and leave it going for a couple of days.

 

[jayadubya]

Thanks again @DWPress ! I'm not a roon user now, but when I was playing with it I did notice it was a memory pig. I mostly use Tidal for the moment.

I hope you'll indulge me with a bit of troubleshooting as I try to get Element + SoundSource working together to tackle this beastly situation...

In SoundSource I see the "Latency" setting in Audio Processing, which I have maxed to "More reliable." On it's own, that hasn't eliminated the stuttering, but I do think it's helped!

I've also got Element and Element FX installed as 'Effects' in SoundSource, but when I examine either of them I don't see the same interface or options as I do with the standalone Element app:

vs.

If I read your other post correctly, I need to have both of these running. In the standalone Element I can set the audio buffer size and sample rate, but within the Element FX option in SoundSource I don't see that option, nor do I see the FiiO K7 as an output source. I suspect I'm missing something here.
* Related question: Element only offers a sample rate here of 48K hz, but in Audio/midi setup I can go all the way up. I'm wondering which is setting the bar/limit? I feel like Audio Midi is the source of truth, but if Element throttles buffer rate I assume it can also control the bit rate or audio format.

Lastly, here is my SoundSource layout if that's helpful:

I am 100% motivated to buy SoundSource if this helps eliminate the stutter. I also own eqMac, but it seems they can perform similar functions, although I think running them together is likely to cause a lot of problems. I see SoundSource can EQ phones, so it solves both of my problems if it can help with this!

 

[DWPress]

as I try to get Element + SoundSource working together

I did use Element + SoundSource together but I didn't use Element as a plugin, just as a stand alone app running in the background. I didn't use the buffer in SoundSource, just in Element. When used as a plugin within SoundSource you can't change input and output because it's already part of a "chain" of signal processing with directed routes. I always used AudioMidi to set the sample rate and my DAC always reports the correct rate.

Element has not been playing well with recent Mac OS. When I did try using Element as a plugin I got less than ideal results but, like I said, I'm running 8ch of convolution so difficult routing that the stand alone app was struggling with in the end, others have reported issues recently also. It had been working really well until Montery. I offered it as a solution to try here because it's free and I suspected it might be ok without a heavy signal load.

Currently I use @mitchco's Hang Loose Convolver to host my XO and room/speaker correction (I still use SoundSource for routing too) which is also based on the JUCE framework. @mitchco - would you consider releasing your HLCconvolverhost app without the plugin for these poor Mac users to experiment with and do you have any other suggestions?

 

[elvisizer]

Hmm- been using usb dacs with a 2019 m1 13” MacBook Pro, an m1 Mac mini, and 2 15” m1max’s and have not run into this.
The mini has the minimum (heh) RAM- 8 mb. It’s always paging a bit, zero issues with audio output. The others all have more resources (64 gb ram on the maxes, 16 gb on the 13”)
In all cases I’m using roon for playback.
66% memory pressure is pretty crazy actually unless you’ve only got the minimum 8 gb- but even then I haven’t seen dropouts like you.
Was system migration used to transfer to the Mac when you bought it? That can bring over a lot of drivers and launchD’s that don’t need to be present on a new system- might be a good idea to make sure you’re not loading any audio related kexts- usb dacs on macs don’t need drivers, or ones could be interfering.
Related issue I’ve seen on my Mac (roon mot being able to connect to my dac when attempting to start playback) is definitely a CoreAudio bug- killing all core audio related processes and letting them respawn fixes that, but I have had to do that a few times a week while running Ventura so far.
Anyway, I would try a different playback software first, and look for any audio related drivers that aren’t needed but still present.
And also dig into that ram usage- I know pycharm is a hog (I work in IT supporting developers on macOS so I’m pretty familiar with the IntelliJ IDEs) but still- take a look and see if anything running all the time is using more ram than it should be.
Good luck!

 

[elvisizer]

I'm using a USB Jitter Cleaner stick between the DAC and the Mac, and now the audio output is perfect—no more stutters, even if I try to overload the system artificially.

Oh whoops I should have read the whole thread before replying- that’s pretty surprising that the jitter device helped but yay for a fix.

 

[jayadubya]

Oh whoops I should have read the whole thread before replying- that’s pretty surprising that the jitter device helped but yay for a fix.

The jitterbug didn't help on my side, but now I have one, I guess? I figure it might be useful some day I'd like to take it apart... feels very snake-oilish to me...

I did not migrate this mac - totally clean from day one, but a good call out.

I've been really lazy about bug-checking... I think it's time I do a naked safe boot and try the DAC there. I can get to the 'break' set up very quickly, just by opening lots of tabs, running tweet deck etc.

A separate update: FiiO has confirmed they would like to update the firmware on the K7. They have to send me a weird dongle and I have to take the damn thing apart to update the chip completely separate from the standard USB interface. I'll take a few pics when that happens. Very lol, but I'm glad they are trying. I got the BTR7 last week, and unfortunately it has the exact same issue - as did a Topping DAC I bought back in the fall and returned. So it's not brand specific!

 

[Zensō]

A separate update: FiiO has confirmed they would like to update the firmware on the K7. They have to send me a weird dongle and I have to take the damn thing apart to update the chip completely separate from the standard USB interface. I'll take a few pics when that happens. Very lol, but I'm glad they are trying. I got the BTR7 last week, and unfortunately it has the exact same issue - as did a Topping DAC I bought back in the fall and returned. So it's not brand specific!

It’s interesting that FiiO is willing to work on this. RME has stated it’s an Apple problem, which I tend to agree with; there are people all over the various Apple forums complaining about this same issue.

 

[jayadubya]

It’s interesting that FiiO is willing to work on this. RME has stated it’s an Apple problem, which I tend to agree with; there are people all over the various Apple forums complaining about this same issue.

Agreed! And I basically told them as much and pointed to these forums. I think they're probably hearing from a number of people and they want to be proactive. But they also said their engineers are working on it and collecting more data.