Audio stutters with USB Dacs on Macbook M1 Pro

[Wicky]

Very curious. My experience is totally different.

I have a MacBook Pro M1 (2021) and a Mac mini M1. Currently on Ventura 13.1 on both devices.

Connected directly from USB 2.0 type C (and A from the Mini) to a RME ADI-2 DAC (USB B) and a HIDIZS S2 dongle DAC (USB C) and have NEVER experienced audio drop-outs not due to source stream nor have I heard popping/crackling.

Players used: Quobuz App and Roon, and sometimes Apple Music

Also often use headphones direct from the MacBook headphone jack, without any problems.

I have not experimented specifically under various system loads but listen while working so can only assume my system has been under reasonable load during periods where I've been listening i.e. multiple apps open including lots of tabs in Safari, MS Excel, and MS Teams (a terrible app performance-wise).

Not sure how much of the above is helpful but just thought I'd share my experience.

 

[Ulfgard]

I think we have a "Mission Accomplished".

I'm using a USB Jitter Cleaner stick between the DAC and the Mac, and now the audio output is perfect—no more stutters, even if I try to overload the system artificially.

I use the "Oehlbach 6075 Pure Clock USB Jitter Cleaner" stick for anyone with the same issue. So now my signal chain is: DAC -> random USB C to USB A cable -> Jitter Cleaner -> Thunderbolt3 Docking Station -> Computer. I can't tell the difference in audio quality.

I'm not sure why I need to "clean" a digital signal that's being routed through several high-end electronic devices, but here we are. If anybody wants to speculate, I'm open to ideas.

 

[Zacfer]

I think we have a "Mission Accomplished".

I'm using a USB Jitter Cleaner stick between the DAC and the Mac, and now the audio output is perfect—no more stutters, even if I try to overload the system artificially.

I use the "Oehlbach 6075 Pure Clock USB Jitter Cleaner" stick for anyone with the same issue. So now my signal chain is: DAC -> random USB C to USB A cable -> Jitter Cleaner -> Thunderbolt3 Docking Station -> Computer. I can't tell the difference in audio quality.

I'm not sure why I need to "clean" a digital signal that's being routed through several high-end electronic devices, but here we are. If anybody wants to speculate, I'm open to ideas.

Thanks a lot for this, just to share my experience as well, I have been having the exact same issues you're describing since getting my M1 16" Macbook Pro with 16 GB memory.

I get some stutter and popping once my memory reaches around the 66% mark, which is very easy given I use it for software development. I'm using a Fiio K5 dock + FiiO X7 2nd gen DAC, which has a USB 2.0 interface going to my USB 3 to USB-c Hub. This didn't use to happen on my Intel 2018 Macbook Pro with the exact same setup. The issue doesn't appear when using the Macbook headphone jack.

I've been pondering whether to upgrade to an amp + DAC which has a USB-C interface, hoping it will resolve the issue, good to know the jitter cleaner fixes it. I'm wondering if this is a hardware level issue or whether it's something Apple can patch

 

[Veri]

I'm wondering if this is a hardware level issue or whether it's something Apple can patch

It does seem hardware/interfacing related...

 

[jayadubya]

Thanks for sharing your journey, @Ulfgard

I'm having the exact same issue. I have a Fiio K7, using a short USB A to USB C cable, and I get stuttering whether connected directly to the MacBook or the dock that I use. I have the Macbook Pro M1 2021 ver with 16gb or ram, Ventura 13.2.1.

Tried pretty much all of the exact same things as you, and the stuttering definitely seems to creep up when memory pressure goes up. I have to keep a lot of Chrome tabs open. I did some memory use throttling in chrome (and Vivaldi) and that did seem to help a little bit. If I hit a stride at work and just stick to one task it doesn't really happen. It really became an issue with video calls though...

I'll try that jitter cleaner stick! But I'm convinced this is an apple/MacOS issue with this chipset. Fiio claims to be working on a new firmware update as well. We shall see. Thanks for sharing and persevering! It's helped me out a lot.

 

[qvanphong]

Hi @Ulfgard, @jayadubya
Can you update your current status? Are these USBs Jitter Cleaner still working good?

 

[jayadubya]

Hi @qvanphong - I actually bought the same model that @Ulfgard from AudioAdvisor here in the US. I am/was super suspicious of the device - felt a little bit like pseudo tech. But, I have to say, it has reduced the jittering/stuttering quite a bit. Sometimes I go an hour or so without a stutter/pop, and that's definitely a difference. I find it somewhat confounding.

However, today I also started toying with the "Automatically lower the global gain" setting on eqMac (see below), and... it seems to be removing the stuttering quite a bit. I'm really curious if this degrades sound quality at all, but my guess is that it just caps out the gain? I'd love any perspectives and have also reached out to Roman @ eqMac.

Might this be the cure? Was it eqMac to start with? I guess I should try it without running eqMac and see if that solves the issue, or if this feature adds functionality to make it work better on the Mac. I still think, ultimately, that it's an issue with the M1 chip based on the volume of issues I've seen online.

 

[qvanphong]

Hi @jayadubya, thank you for reply and such helpful information, I believe using eqMac does not help reduce the stuttering, I think it must be from your Jitter Cleaner. I just tried the Automatically lower the global gain/Peak Limit on eqMac but it seems not working.

I'm considering if iFi Silencer has the same feature as your JitterBug, because JitterBug is currently out of stock in my country.

 

[jayadubya]

I've also opened a ticket with Apple and will take my MB Pro to the genius bar this weekend. I have low hopes, but will report back! I think adding hardware to solve the problem seems a bit wild.

 

[qvanphong]

There are some cases in which Apple replaced a whole new MBP because of this issue, but the problem is still there. But replaced with the new one still is a good deal.

 

[jayadubya]

And now, a few hours since I wrote the previous note, the stuttering/skipping is back and super regular. Given the passing of time, I can only assume it has to do with accumulated memory pressure or CPU usage issues. I've also posted on Fiio's forums, but I'm not very happy with the slow/low/no response rate. bummer

 

[thrillho]

have an SMSL m500 v1 and a 2021 MacBook Pro M1. have the exact same issues as everyone else and it drives me bananas.

on Monterey it was flat out terrible but improved with Ventura though the issue still exists.

i have found that the stutters happen more often when i'm in a browser which i'm sure is tied to memory usage. also, by default, macOS would set my DAC to the highest available setting it supported by default which is fine BUT the highest seemed to cause more problems so lowering it to 24bit/192khz helped a little bit with the stutters but they still happen somewhat frequently. this replaced a 2019 intel mac which had 0 problems with this so i imagine it's tied to something with the new architecture.

 

[Veri]

i have found that the stutters happen more often when i'm in a browser which i'm sure is tied to memory usage. also, by default, macOS would set my DAC to the highest available setting it supported by default which is fine BUT the highest seemed to cause more problems so lowering it to 24bit/192khz helped a little bit with the stutters but they still happen somewhat frequently. this replaced a 2019 intel mac which had 0 problems with this so i imagine it's tied to something with the new architecture.

Why 192kHz anyway? Just use 44 or 48? It's just your Mac OS doing the upsampling to the set rate anyway, might as well let the DAC do it.

 

[nerdstrike]

A couple of general observations:

Mac OS habitually uses memory compression when there's any kind of contention for resources. You have no control over that, fact of life, especially if you're the zillions of tabs open kind of user.

Sometimes the system logs will report something that you can identify, viewable via console or /var/log. Rather a lot of noise to filter through, but rarely you can see a smoking gun if you have a narrow time window up consider.

 

[thrillho]

Why 192kHz anyway? Just use 44 or 48? It's just your Mac OS doing the upsampling to the set rate anyway, might as well let the DAC do it.

i've tried them all and it still stutters. i set it to 192 because that's the highest that apple music outputs.

 

[Tangband]

I need help getting external DACs to work correctly on my 2019 Macbook Pro M1.

I experience audio stutters as soon as I have a high system load. The stutters occur once every few minutes, each lasting only very short. The audio quality itself is excellent, and the DAC itself work fine.

The problem happens with the following DACs:

- Topping E70
- SMSL SU-8
- iFI Zen V2
- My USB-C-based Qudelix 5K Dac works fine, though - no issue at all.

Things I've tried:

- Change the audio format in Audio Midi Setup - no difference
- connect the DACs to a different USB port - either on a passive USB 2.0 Hub that is linked to my Thunderbolt Docking Station or going to the Thunderbolt Docking Station directly
- Restarting and updating the firmware (where possible)
- Disabling "Set time and date automatically" - this seems to improve the stutters minimally
- Try different audio sources (they all stutter)
- Using Bluetooth Audio output - this works fine.

The problem is undoubtedly related to the Macbook because a Windows Laptop has no issues using the DACs with the same setup/docking station.

If I had to guess, my Mac has an issue with the USB 2.0 port, which is the common connector of all DACs (except the Qudelix).

Do you have any other ideas of what I could try? I'm at my wit's end, ordering several DACs from Amazon to see if one device magically works.

Try use apples original adaptor cable for USB C to USB 2.0 type A, no problems at all for me ( M1 2021 ).

 

[Veri]

i've tried them all and it still stutters. i set it to 192 because that's the highest that apple music outputs.

I see okay that's a good reason to

 

[DWPress]

You could try running your audio through a plugin host like Element and then increase the audio buffer size. This will add delay but buffer the current audio stream so any system activity will have less affect. My M1 mini which was also my work machine had similar problems with only 8GB RAM. My new M2 with 24GB RAM has had no problems so far even with Roon's terrible memory leak problems.

 

[Axo1989]

I'll add a progress report also. So my M2 MBP 13" 24GB had the stutters whenever Safari was loaded up with a gazillion pages/tabs. After that, opening a new page/tab or scrolling while playing music—via Music app, not just web players—would do it.

Changing my Safari habits on that machine—closing pages/tabs when done instead of using web pages as ongoing displays/reminders of anything and everything—obviated the issue. No stutters at all since I last posted in this thread.

Of course that would be crap if I didn't have another Mac for work with the old Intel architecture and more copious RAM. I managed to coax an audio stutter out of the latter machine with Safari loaded up and a GIS app (which can easily demand >128 GB with very large datasets open) and Xcode doing their thing, but it's not really an issue there unless I contrive a mega-load. Anyway the workaround is ok for now.

 

[Axo1989]

Try use apples original adaptor cable for USB C to USB 2.0 type A, no problems at all for me ( M1 2021 ).

I might try that out of curiosity. I think I had the issue prior to running my audio out via a hub but I could easily be misremembering.