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Audio Note speakers

Many speakers of Philips, Kef, Dynaco, Goodman and Warfdale were like that (and there is more).

But they surely don't measure like modern hi tech speakers, and are not worht more in my book. The ones i got were cheap to aquire for me. And for critical systems (studio monitoring, hifi in the sense of neutral low distortion) they don't come close to the modern Genelec's, Neumanns, JBL's or Revel's. But they are very enjoyable to listen to for hours on their own.
I still rate Tannoy and Great Plains Audio (the modern company who sells modern build (relative accurate) Altec drivers clones), but won't buy any of them, as their prices are ridiculous today. But their speakers are still very enjoyable in the old way, the way that made them famous. JBL does it right, and makes to today (ASR) standards great speakers, they don't rely only on the past like those two other brands. They moved with the time and technology and their speakers are worth the prices they go for, even the 17K costing (for a pair) JBL 4367 that is as neutral as the Genelecs and Neumann's of today, certainly if you add dsp room correction. The (50K costing) Tannoy Westminster is not neutral at all. It's oldskool coloured but nice sounding, but certainly not worth the 50K they sell for. 5K for a pair would be more reasonable (for the extensive woodwork, not the sound or the engineeing).
You can get Philips speakers in Sweden for almost no money at all. :) There are even those that measure well, like Philips 587.

Whether the Philips 587 was an exception among Philips speakers and that they have an even FR, I don't know, but anyway here they are:
1712580804826.png

Here are windowed measurements of both after the repairs and adjustments, perfect linearity better than +-2 dB and superb matching better than 0,5 dB:
1712581059467.png
Even their directivity isn't too shabby thanks to the small mid and high domes with even some kind of waveguide:
1712581082064.png

It was thewas speakers that he brings up in #145 of this thread:


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Wafoe's Philips 22AH487. I think their looks are appealing. :)
IMG20240928113211~2.jpg

I hope Wafoe gave up on the bad idea of changing the bass driver in them to make them go down lower in frequency. The solution is of course to add a subwoofer, which was pointed out in the thread:

 
I find the topic of this thread very suitable to go off topic. ;) The thread was brought back to life a week ago by an... astonishing post by @Ro808, after that I found it rather interesting at times, sometimes amusing, sometimes somewhat

My class-D amp sounds lifeless and boring indeed, when it amplifies lifeless and boring music, but when that occasionaly happens, I just change the station. And what's so nice, every watt it consumes more than about 18 w, is converted in music, voices.
Nice with free associations. In addition, the subject itself of Audio Note speakers being or not can only be determined if they are put in relation to other speakers.:)

The themes we circulate in the thread are interesting: High efficiency speakers, price - performance ratio, vintage when where how and why, classic speaker design principles (two way 8 inch bass 1 inch tweeter) and how they stack up today and so on.:)
 
You can get Philips speakers in Sweden for almost no money at all. :) There are even those that measure well, like Philips 587.

Whether the Philips 587 was an exception among Philips speakers and that they have an even FR, I don't know, but anyway here they are:
View attachment 401007

Here are windowed measurements of both after the repairs and adjustments, perfect linearity better than +-2 dB and superb matching better than 0,5 dB:
View attachment 401003
Even their directivity isn't too shabby thanks to the small mid and high domes with even some kind of waveguide:
View attachment 401004

It was thewas speakers that he brings up in #145 of this thread:


_______

Wafoe's Philips 22AH487. I think their looks are appealing. :)
View attachment 401006

I hope Wafoe gave up on the bad idea of changing the bass driver in them to make them go down lower in frequency. The solution is of course to add a subwoofer, which was pointed out in the thread:

When I was about 16 years old, in the early eighties, I earned some money by helping a farmer fetching hay (complete with nice tractor driving) so I could buy my first two-way speakers, Philips plastic 14 litre with real hifi emblems on the grilles:cool:, second hand for 100 guilders (now roughly 100 euro I guess). For my then-standards they sounded very nice, with good hi-hat/ride cymbal tinkle-tankle cristal clearness! Maybe they would outperform a n speakers.:D In those days you could find a lot of philips gear of the seventees second hand, Some of the mfb's, amplifiers and tuners were allright - good, and particular their reel to reel decks and turntables/cartridges price/quality wise, until they had succes with cd players. 'Made in Holland' then, and they had a driver factory in Belgium. Philips now only makes hospital/health/personal care equipment, the other electronics are sold, but still wear the Philips brand.
 
When I was about 16 years old, in the early eighties, I earned some money by helping a farmer fetching hay (complete with nice tractor driving) so I could buy my first two-way speakers, Philips plastic 14 litre with real hifi emblems on the grilles:cool:, second hand for 100 guilders (now roughly 100 euro I guess). For my then-standards they sounded very nice, with good hi-hat/ride cymbal tinkle-tankle cristal clearness! Maybe they would outperform a n speakers.:D In those days you could find a lot of philips gear of the seventees second hand, Some of the mfb's, amplifiers and tuners were allright - good, and particular their reel to reel decks and turntables/cartridges price/quality wise, until they had succes with cd players. 'Made in Holland' then, and they had a driver factory in Belgium. Philips now only makes hospital/health/personal care equipment, the other electronics are sold, but still wear the Philips brand.
This nostalgia. Fuel for us old hifi farts. :) Nothing wrong with that. Why else this craze for record players among so many of us ASR members?

I'm seminostalgic. I use a vintage Luxor 7082A amplifier because I think it looks good and because it was relatively common when I first got interested in listening to music. I was too young then and had no money to buy one, so I had to buy one now instead.;):) In addition, I think it's nice to praise one's own country's HiFi history and its products.

Not mine but that model:
a80087d3-a9d4-418c-9b7c-0044ee8f05f9 (4) (1).jpegScreenshot_2024-10-23_143239.jpg
(Spec, addition, it was NOT made by L&G Inc. in Japan)

It was the best amplifier Luxor made. I should match it with the best speakers, Luxor transmission line 8071, which they. But they are quite large, or wide so they doesn't quite fit into my small living room. This is what they look like, pretty good FR too::)
Screenshot_2024-10-23_141727.jpgScreenshot_2024-10-23_141759.jpg


However, I would never ever start using cassette tires again. That's the nostalgia limit for me. o_O :oops:

On the nostalgia trail. I listen to the radio a lot. Not just out of nostalgia but because there are so many great internet radio stations to listen to these days.:) Check here for example:



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Luxor was a Swedish home electronics and computer manufacturer located in Motala, established in 1923 and acquired by Nokia in 1985.

 
You mean Luxman? There are some striking similarities.

View attachment 401045
Well:
Screenshot_2024-10-23_152502.jpg
My, but also my friend Kjell's, comment about Luxor7082A, #44 in the thread below:
Screenshot_2024-10-23_152624.jpg

To link back to Philips. You as a resident of the Netherlands may have knowledge of it, i.e. what was Philips' best amplifier that they made? :)

A tip, have you seen this thread: :)

 
inherent to SS designs is to have dominant odd harmonics. It has a lot to do with nature of feedback circuits.
That is so wrong, it is not fanny anymore. Please read the amplifier basics.
Dominant odd harmonic are inherent in any push-pull amplifier, whether it is SS or tube,
Any Single Ended SS class A amplifier will have dominant second harmonic. Here is the proof - measured harmonic distortion of Solid State amplifier Pass ACA:

Pass ACA THD.png


It is obvious that 2nd harmonic is higher than 3rd, 4th is higher than 5th, and so on...

It has nothing to do with the nature of the feedback circuit - negative feedback only lowers the distortion, it not changes distortion profile.
 
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To link back to Philips. You as a resident of the Netherlands may have knowledge of it, i.e. what was Philips' best amplifier that they made? :)
Well I really wouldn't know, they made an awful lot of amps through the years.
1729692728273.png

https://www.opusklassiek.nl/audio/audio-aw/philipsfa951.htm

Maybe this one, but it's from 1994. They made some heavier ones. In general their amps were just/pretty good. like a lot of brands.:) I have two old ones from the 70's that still work without scratching sounds, etc.
 
That is so wrong, it is not fanny anymore. Please read the amplifier basics.
Dominant odd harmonic are inherent in any push-pull amplifier, whether it is SS or tube, Any SS class A amplifier will have dominant second harmonic. Here is the proof - measured harmonic distortion of Solid State amplifier Pass ACA:

View attachment 401058

It is obvious that 2nd harmonic is higher than 3rd, 4th is higher than 5th, and so on...

It has nothing to do with the nature of the feedback circuit - negative feedback only lowers the distortion, it not changes distortion profile.
True and I have heard this many times from many audiophiles with the addition that therefore there is only one choice if you are a true HiFi lover, a class A amplifier. So be it IF it were not for the fact that nowadays there are many good push-pull, class AB, class D amplifiers that have distortion levels below the level of audibility. When I present that argument, the usual salvo usually comes: You can't measure everything you can hear....blah blah. Preferably then topped with statements that negative feedback creates a silent void in the music that removes the musicality... or some similar crazy claim. :oops:

Edit:
Just mention class D to the ones I referenced above and they get a rash on their body. It has changed a bit in recent years but the irrational resistance is there.
 
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That is so wrong, it is not fanny anymore. Please read the amplifier basics.
Dominant odd harmonic are inherent in any push-pull amplifier, whether it is SS or tube,
Any Single Ended SS class A amplifier will have dominant second harmonic. Here is the proof - measured harmonic distortion of Solid State amplifier Pass ACA:

View attachment 401058

It is obvious that 2nd harmonic is higher than 3rd, 4th is higher than 5th, and so on...

It has nothing to do with the nature of the feedback circuit - negative feedback only lowers the distortion, it not changes distortion profile.
And some tube amps manage to have more 3rd than 2nd.
 
On the nostalgia trail. I listen to the radio a lot. Not just out of nostalgia but because there are so many great internet radio stations to listen to these days.:) Check here for example:

Thanks. Yes I do too, mostly public classic, 'etc' stations. Sound much less worse than many pop stations, too. Sorry for off topic again...
 
It becomes a big silly when the tube amp bashing starts again. Technically your right, but humans tend to love harmonic distortion, and tube amps give that. Most will prefer clean low distiortion (amps or speakers) and those are superior technically. But attacking everybody who's in the minority that can enjoy something coloured with the same silly arguments that go beyond the fact that they are discussing personal preference is silly. As silly as those who claim tube amps are the ultimate musical amps and class D sucks.

There is the objective technical side of it (and i'm glad ASR defend that as hard as they do), but there is also personal preference, and that is not always the same. It would be good if you can understand that. Which does not mean you need to let it pass when someone here start to say that tube amps are the ultimate, they are not. But they are niche that has a valid reason: personal preference! And within the coloured amp range you also got good and bad models, and that should also be shown in measurements (like Amir does sometimes). That Yaqin he tested is a perfect example of a bad model, that is almost broken by design...

Btw, i use both. I have Hypex Ncore and SMSL amps and i have coloured (tube and class A) amps and love and use both for the right purpose. And that is not bad. What is bad is when their come claims that have no scientific base to sell inferior stuff for silly prices to technical noobs. Audio Note is exactly that, but not all coloured gear is like that and a lot of people know why they get tubes and not ncore for their setup. They want the colouration and that is exactly the reason why i bought mine. Clean neutral can be done much cheaper with solid state class D amps, so no reason to buy tube amps for that.
 
It becomes a big silly when the tube amp bashing starts again. Technically your right, but humans tend to love harmonic distortion, and tube amps give that. Most will prefer clean low distiortion (amps or speakers) and those are superior technically. But attacking everybody who's in the minority that can enjoy something coloured with the same silly arguments that go beyond the fact that they are discussing personal preference is silly. As silly as those who claim tube amps are the ultimate musical amps and class D sucks.

There is the objective technical side of it (and i'm glad ASR defend that as hard as they do), but there is also personal preference, and that is not always the same. It would be good if you can understand that. Which does not mean you need to let it pass when someone here start to say that tube amps are the ultimate, they are not. But they are niche that has a valid reason: personal preference! And within the coloured amp range you also got good and bad models, and that should also be shown in measurements (like Amir does sometimes). That Yaqin he tested is a perfect example of a bad model, that is almost broken by design...

Btw, i use both. I have Hypex Ncore and SMSL amps and i have coloured (tube and class A) amps and love and use both for the right purpose. And that is not bad. What is bad is when their come claims that have no scientific base to sell inferior stuff for silly prices to technical noobs. Audio Note is exactly that, but not all coloured gear is like that and a lot of people know why they get tubes and not ncore for their setup. They want the colouration and that is exactly the reason why i bought mine. Clean neutral can be done much cheaper with solid state class D amps, so no reason to buy tube amps for that.
I have nothing against those who want to use tube amps. I already know that you do and I have nothing against you. :)
For my own part, I would imagine a tube amp with at least 60 SINAD, around 30-40 watts to power up the midrange and tweeter.

For example this:


The only thing stopping me is: $3000. I think it's too much money for what you get, but others may think differently. Totally ok for me. :)

Or this one, which seems fine:

I don't know what a used Sonic Frontiers SFS-80 costs.

DIY tube amp, absolutely for those who have the knowledge and time. Page 6, #102 of this thread I brought up the Horias2000 diy tube amp. It looks like a good build.

This one:
f9e49e9a-3b7b-42cc-b5a9-da115fabe722.jpg5682a2b8-1c69-4d69-8bad-86663511e0a4.jpg

Edit:
Plus for many years I had a little DIY tube amp that I used from time to time. It's the only Hifi item I regret selling:
IMG_20200910_125829 (1)_copy_1560x2080 (1).jpgPhotoPictureResizer_200826_072639643_copy_1632x1224 (1).jpg
 
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Neutral audio playback equipment strives to reproduce what is on the recording. That is "accuracy". However, some people either 1) do not prefer accuracy, or 2) have been exposed to a dominant inaccuracy, and therefore are accustomed to it.

There is no gainsaying preference. You like what you like. But preference has absolutely nothing to do with judging accuracy, although the opposite might be true. (Accuracy is the reproducible standard, and preferences are variations that are not reproducible.)

Accuracy of electronic circuits is shown with tests and measurements, performed with analytical instruments far more sensitive and accurate than the human auditory system.

I have found the best solution to this problem is to acquire as accurate a system as I can, and then sit back and enjoy what it provides. YMMV. :)

Jim T

That right there!!!! That's the thing I call the listening paradigm. If one has a taste for African American Gospel music from the 70's and 80's, most of it is amplified and your paradigm is built around the places and the PA systems you've heard it through. You've grown accustomed to it's sound. Anything else will sound off. I was on the NHI site earlier today and learned that each individual has their own "audio engineer" inside their head (but that's more for the psychoacoustics thread).
 
My friend said that he would file some WG for the tweeter in baffle. I don't know if he did. Why make it difficult? Instead, choose a tweeter with WG that can be set with a lower crossover point, such as these:

View attachment 400702
ScanSpeak H2606/920000
Especially, as already pointed out in the thread, the need for WG tweeters if an 8 inch bass driver is to be used in a two-way design.

Excellent tweeter, especially the original vifa (later: Peerless/Tymphany) with rear chamber:

1.jpg
1729789794377.png
 
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They want the colouration and that is exactly the reason why i bought mine. Clean neutral can be done much cheaper with solid state class D amps, so no reason to buy tube amps for that.

Yup.

Some audiophiles have the goal of simply putting together an accurate system, with the idea that the system should have no sound of its own, which is great.

Other audiophiles enjoy playing with sound, experimenting with slightly different presentations, perhaps nudging the sound more in the direction they find a bit more realistic, or maybe simply more pleasant.
Some of it can be imagined of course some of it can be real sonic changes, but I’m talking about different goals and proclivities.

For me when I use solid-state in my system, I appreciate it, but on the other hand, I end up with a feeling “ so that’s it? This is as far as we go?” Because I’m hearing strictly neutrality and transparency, and one neutral amp is going to sound the same as the next as the next as the next. That’s why I have fun over the years to play around with things like tube amplification to see what type of additional characteristics they can bring to the sound. And sometimes they seem to sound a bit “ better” to me than solid state in some ways.

In fact, I find a significant level of satisfaction and enjoyment of my system comes from the subtle but significant to me characteristics of the tube amplification which is why every time I try solid state I go running back to my classic tube amps.

I also play around with sound by adjusting speaker positioning, listening, positioning, and adjusting the acoustics in my room. That’s another fun way.

There’s obviously other ways to manipulate the sound if you want such as DSP, equalizers.

But for some reason, I just don’t find it as fun. I had a parametric digital EQ in my system forever that I just never used much,

Which is an odd thing because in my work in sound POST PRODUCTION I am constantly manipulating sound via EQ and various plug-ins.

But when it comes to my two channel system, perhaps I’ve just got some old audiophile habits, but I’m fine with them because it’s pleasurable. Tube amps are fun and interesting, And perhaps another aspect is being able to unplug from digital life and my daily work, and just play in the analogue realm again. Maybe it’s like an IT professional who builds model toy trains in his spare time for relaxation.

We all have our quirks, which we find ways to please. :/)
 
Done right, it's certainly possible to get a good two-way speaker with eight-inch bass drivers and one-inch tweeters suitable for the design. :)

With a low crossover point and waveguide, it gives this result:
(not my DIY)

1000043742.jpg
 
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Damien Quintard is a great social media influencer but lacks any knowledge of electrical engineering, acoustics or psychoacoustics. Real engineers - yes, I'm saying that Damien Quintard is not a real engineer - tend to use Genelec, Neumann/K&H, Geithain, and, more recently, Kii and D&D monitors.
Quintard was born in Paris. Inspired by his multicultural childhood spent across the globe in Mumbai, Hong Kong and Singapore, Quintard started to learn music theory and piano at the age of 3. He pursued his musical education in different conservatories and local music schools. He returned to Paris in his teenage years and started the band, Dot Legacy, that successfully toured around Europe, Brazil and Canada winning the Best International Emerging Artist award at the Canadian Indie Week in December 2018. Fascinated by science, specifically maths and physics, he studied aerospace engineering before turning to audio engineering.

Quintard's first recordings were charity-based for the National Institute for the Young and Blind (INJA) in Paris where his sister, Soprano Aurore Quintard, would often sing. He dived deeper into the world of sound and audio engineering and created his first professional recordings for the renowned studio Little Tribeca, where he worked as Studio Manager. During this time, he recorded and produced many award-winning productions such as Schumann, Schubert, Brahms with Lise Berthaud & Adam Laloum and Johann Adolf Hasse: Siroe, Re di Persiaith Max Emmanuel Cenčić & George Petrou.

Damien Quintard started recording, mixing and mastering the rising classical star Teodor Currentzis and his orchestra musicAeterna in 2012. Throughout the years, Currentzis became a friend and a mentor who helped improve Quintard's technique and detailed work. Their collaboration resulted in a series of recognized awards, particularly for Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony and Mozart's Don Giovanni that won respectively the Gold and Silver Record Academy Award in Japan – that being the first time in 55 iterations that the same artist wins the top two prizes consecutively.

These recordings successfully won several awards, counting the Diapason d'Or (2017) and the Gramophone Classical Music Award (2018) for Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 6 as well as the BBC Magazine Music Award (2017) for Mozart's Don Giovanni – amongst many others.

In 2015, he worked with Dimitris Papaioannou and Vangelino Currentzis on the production of the Baku European Games Opening Ceremony in Azerbaijan. The ceremony was nominated by the National Academy of Television, Arts and Sciences for an Emmy Award, granting the Sound Engineering and Production Department a golden statuette for Outstanding Live and Direct to Tape Sound Mixing. This particular production focused on the unusual blending of different genres going from Lady Gaga’s live performance and interpretation of Imagine by John Lennon to Jean Sibelius and traditional Azeri music.

Quintard and Peter Qvortrup, CEO of Audio Note Ltd, started their collaboration in 2016. Both pushing, with their respective companies, to create a revolutionary line of audio equipment. To this day, Quintard’s Paris studio The Mono Company is equipped with four Audio Note systems including Tomei AN-E Alnico Sogon and Meishu AN-E SPeHE.


Seems like he knows a fair bit to me.

I mean
  • 2016 - Emmy Award - Lead Sound Engineer and Producer for the Baku Olympic Games Opening Ceremony[9]
  • 2017 - Diapason D’Or - Producing, Recording, Edit, Mix and Mastering of Tchaikovsky 6th Symphony with Teodor Currentzis[6]
  • 2017 - BBC Magazine Music Award - Recording, Edit, Mix and Mastering of Mozart's Don Giovanni with Teodor Currentzis[18]
  • 2017 - Japan Academy Award Gold - Producing, Recording, Edit, Mix and Mastering of Tchaikovsky 6th Symphony with Teodor Currentzis[5]
  • 2017 - Japan Academy Award Silver - Recording, Edit, Mix and Mastering of Mozart's Don Giovanni with Teodor Currentzis[5]
  • 2018 - Gramophone Classical Music Award - Producing, Recording, Edit, Mix and Mastering of Tchaikovsky 6th Symphony with Teodor Currentzis[7]
  • 2018 - Edison Award - The most prestigious price in the Netherlands was awarded to Tchaikovsky Symphony #6 with Teodor Currentzis[19]
  • 2018 - Japan Academy Award (Best Album of the Year + Best Orchestral Work) - Mahler Symphony No. 6 with Teodor Currentzis and musicAeterna[20]
  • 2020 - Diapason D’Or - Producing, Recording, Edit, Mix and Mastering of “Goodnight!” with Bertrand Chamayou ft. Bryce Dessner[21]
  • 2020 - Forbes 30 under 30 France - Top pick of the 30 brightest young entrepreneurs, leaders in France by Forbes
  • 2021 - IoT Awards - Innovation Project for SoundX's Numéro UN

But he's just an "influencer"

What may I ask have you recorded? If one is going to judge or criticize Quintard's qualifications then that person should have "higher" qualifications. Similarly if one is going to pick on say a recording/mastering engineer like Steve Hoffman who masters SACD and for the best audiophile labels as well as for artists like Eva Cassidy, The Beatles, The Eagles, Pink Floyd, Miles Davis, John Coltrane etc then understandably I would like to see the resume of the recording engineer who claims superiority.
 
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Appears to me that many ‘engineers’ have no technical speaker design/component knowledge whatsoever they chat about dacs the way ‘audiophiles’ discuss USB cables, cluelessly.
I suppose mixing is ultimately just knob twiddling and thus entirely subjective.
Keith
 
A sound engineer is not necesairly one with an egineering education. Many come from the musical side of the music bussiness, certainly today. I worked for years freelance as engineer, in the live circuit (mainly dj soudsystems and big festivals), radio (broadcast and live concerts on air) and as recording and mixing engineer (mostly hired by the artist themselves) with no formal eduction in engineering or sound at all. I'm a school dropout who learned most of the stuff i do myself. I'm a former bass and cello player (can't play anymore because of broken hand), producer (largely electronic music) and dj, and came from that side into sound engineering. Here in Belgium formal training as sound engineer was almost no existing untill the start of the 21st century, you learned it on the job, starting at the bottom.

Now i work in ICT (due to back problems) and also there i have no formal training, only diy knowledge.
 
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