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Atoll DAC200 Signature - Review & Measurements (DAC)

BR52 said:
You are right, it's a topic on its one.
The question is, is a music reproduction system a music instrument or does it "only" reproduce without any ad on.
Click to expand...
Sure, the reproduction chain should be about reproduction, but that was not my point, It was that some flaws are benign, unimportant, are not taking you away from music enjoyment, which is the purpose of an audio reproduction chain. beyond that it's about philosophy, about what you stand for.
 
Thank you for this review and insight in to an otherwise fairly unknown brand.
Just a short while ago I was at a hifi place and asked them to give me some insight into a way to upgrade my stereo playback on a not too high budget.
The salesperson recommended me to look at Atoll branded stuff as he said it performed really well for the price point. Seeing as you have their 2nd most expensive offering here with such mediocre results I am glad I did not abide by his info.

The search goes on!
 
PeteL said:
Sure, the reproduction chain should be about reproduction, but that was not my point, It was that some flaws are benign, unimportant, are not taking you away from music enjoyment, which is the purpose of an audio reproduction chain. beyond that it's about philosophy, about what you stand for.
Click to expand...
We can enjoy music with a simple radio. I am quite old and in my younger age HIFI
was may be on the same level we see in the review here (and had fun). Guess we can do it in 2023 better from the point of reproduction without ad on.
 
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I noticed in Atoll literature that, for USB, they recommend a cable with a ferrite bead. I understand it may be a good precaution, but does it really matter? Are they admitting to a (poor) EMI-sensitive, design?
 
horias2000 said:
I agree that at some point, we no longer hear the difference between good and very good equipment. And that going for a THD+N of -120dB might bee a moot point as it will sound as good as -90dB. My personal opinion is that anything better than -80dB is good and it is very difficult to spot a difference between -80dB and -100dB (at least for me).
Click to expand...
There was a nice discussion about harmonic distortions decreasing SINAD town to 20dB.
audiosciencereview.com

Take the blind challenge! 300B SET vs. Straight Wire with Gain

Yes...any objectivist who said "tube sound destroys music" would be wrong. But, I can't recall that being siad by any objectivists very often at all. What I do recall hearing (and saying myself) is "hey if you like that tube sound more power to you but I don't want to use my amp to add a layer...
audiosciencereview.com audiosciencereview.com

In the past I took a lot of listening tests regarding harmonic distortion as I had a tool to add them electronically as I like. See the attached paper in my posting above.

I can tell that with harmonics below -40dB nicely dropping as they do with a B300 triode it was hard but possible for me to hear the distortion. I share the findings that Keith Howard described here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/euphonic-distortion-naughty-nice-page-2

However, I am an engineer and as such I have the urge to own electronics that are as transparent as possible. In this regard, I also really liked the combination of ADI-2 Pro plus NCx500. I was able to compare it to an AVM Evolution CS5.3, which it clearly outperformed. Clean, clear, listenable!
 
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BR52 said:
We can enjoy music with a simple radio. I am quite old and in my younger age HIFI
was may be on the same level we see in the review here (and had fun). Guess we can do it in 2023 better from the point of reproduction without ad on.
Click to expand...
Still I believe I haven't made myself clear. I am all about HiFi, love HiFi. Yes I can enjoy music on a radio, but less. Much less. Now, just for full disclosure. I own a Schiit Freya+ as my main preamp. I like it, even with the tube engaged, which measure just ok. On Amir's standard, below ok. I used the tube because on some sources I need the extra gain compared to passive and Buffered Unity gain. I purchased it mainly for the feature set, both Balanced and unbalanced Top notch relay controlled volume, and why not a set of tube, thy look cool and are quite transparent to me. It is still Hifi to me. Truly. Table radio, not so much, BT Speakers, not so much, Low bit rate mp3, not so much. That's all. The question is can this DAC can have it's place in a hifi system. To me if it comes down to oh I can spot the difference if I am really concentrated and try very hard, worrying about that is pointless. If it's -that bass sounds fuzzy, The high are edgy, I hear a hiss, stuff like that, then it bother me... Make sense?
 
PeteL said:
Still I believe I haven't made myself clear. I am all about HiFi, love HiFi. Yes I can enjoy music on a radio, but less. Much less. Now, just for full disclosure. I own a Schiit Freya+ as my main preamp. I like it, even with the tube engaged, which measure just ok. On Amir's standard, below ok. I used the tube because on some sources I need the extra gain compared to passive and Buffered Unity gain. I purchased it mainly for the feature set, both Balanced and unbalanced Top notch relay controlled volume, and why not a set of tube, thy look cool and are quite transparent to me. It is still Hifi to me. Truly. Table radio, not so much, BT Speakers, not so much, Low bit rate mp3, not so much. That's all. The question is can this DAC can have it's place in a hifi system. To me if it comes down to oh I can spot the difference if I am really concentrated and try very hard, worrying about that is pointless. If it's -that bass sounds fuzzy, The high are edgy, I hear a hiss, stuff like that, then it bother me... Make sense?
Click to expand...
Thank you for clarifying, the human brain is a great signal conditioner and can easily suppress a lot. Especially if you have no direct comparison and the level is low. The hum or noise is easy to identify because it has nothing to do with the music you hear, THD is different because it is signal related.
 
Nobody noticed how the wording of Atoll specifications is. They don't say that the DAC 200 has these numbers, but the SABRE ES9028PRO chipset...
Technically, they are not lying per se, just a little semantic game :

The output stage is probably the kind of low performance, low number of component style. Just a look at the PCB says everything. Probably a PASS ZEN kind of stuff, with common gate/grid follower and "power" ouput stage. The DAC 300 is exactly the same with the ES9038 instead. Easy engineering, perfect story telling for audiophiles.

1683041927261.png
 
jipihorn said:
Nobody noticed how the wording of Atoll specifications is. They don't say that the DAC 200 has these numbers, but the SABRE ES9028PRO chipset...
Technically, they are not lying per se, just a little semantic game :
Click to expand...
See post #109 :cool:
 
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BR52 said:
This link says every thing. A lot of DIY's feel discriminated with your comparison.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately only the best DIY amplifier or speakers are commonly brought up. There are plenty of "DIY first tries" or " DIY approximations" out there. But I agree with you, there are also many well-thought and well-made DIY speakers, DIY amplifiers, etc. ;)
 
Hello, @jipihorn :)
jipihorn said:
Nobody noticed how the wording of Atoll specifications is. They don't say that the DAC 200 has these numbers, but the SABRE ES9028PRO chipset...
Technically, they are not lying per se, just a little semantic game
Click to expand...
Well, it depends... At some places, they 100% imply that these are technical data of the (finished) DAC, not the chip:
Capture d’écran (1172).png


Same goes for the manual (last page):
 
VintageFlanker said:
Hello, @jipihorn :)

Well, it depends... At some places, they 100% imply that these are technical data of the (finished) DAC, not the chip:
View attachment 283010

Same goes for the manual (last page):
Click to expand...
I see bad faith in this.
Surely they know the performance of their dac, if they had focused their marketing entirely on the "sound of the house" I would have accepted it but somehow they want you to believe that those are the actual performance of the dac, so they are in bad faith.
 
Yes, but it is after the original and very visible text (so it just repeats what is already written).
It is even more weird. The French version (the one I read) is not like that :

1683045672617.png

There is a "convertisseur ES9028PRO" just before, same template as the main text. More ambiguity. They "forgot" to make the same phrase structure in English.

I know, either they are stupid or they are very twisted. In both case, it is not very reassuring.

And, on the manual there is the magical formula : (Data subject to change).


J.
 
By the way, for those who don't know jipihorn and are fluent in French, checkout his Youtube channel and blog :


jipihorn.wordpress.com

Jipihorn's Blog

Its a big problem in these forums that people hold opinions with no supporting evidence that clearly contradict the available evidences - that's called religion and it has no place in audio. …
jipihorn.wordpress.com jipihorn.wordpress.com

Highly recommended.

;)
 
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